Westinghouse Stereo/Hi Fi...

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norgeway

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Since im on a Westinghouse kick, I wondered if anyone has ever had a Westinghouse stereo...Im on the hunt for one, but the only ones I have found are el cheapo BOL models, I know they made some nice units.
 
One must be somewhat astute to buy anything from that era that is 'actually' hi-fi. Almost all will turn your records into dust with 5+ gram tracking forces, and almost all are low power/high distortion single-ended amplifiers.

The collectors know which are which and the 'good' ones will be priced quite high whether they are in operating condition or not (requiring much electromechanical rebuilding).

I know that sounds bleak but frankly as a hi-fi fanatic since 1962, a 1950 Westinghouse console radio with phono input sounds better than anything they built in the 'stereo' era. You'd still have to solve the turntable/arm/cartridge problem and you'd need 2 for stereo.

Far as 'major manufacturers' only Magnavox and Zenith-- maybe TOL RCA-- sold anything even approaching acceptable by today's standards, and that's AFTER replacing the turntable and cartridge. And matching the gain difference between magnetic and crystal pickups.

Practically, antique/vintage commercial record players can only be made listenable with a great deal of skilled restoration.
 
60s Westinghouse Electronics

Oh Hans, you might be taking this WH thing too far, I like you loved WH design and styling as a kid and now, and I used to work on a lot of TVs and Stereos when younger. And from my experience and that of a few older guys that were in the TV-Stereo repair business I quickly found out that WH was not a great builder of this type of equipment [ to put it nicely ], but it sure is pretty, LOL.
 
actually your assesment of Westinghouse is not entirely true, arbilab. I have an early sixties Westinghouse Hi Fi stereo. The changer is a Voice of Music, which is much, much better on records than Monarch/BSR. The amp is a single end 7591, which about ten watts. The speakers are 8 inch and 4 inch. The only thing I didn't like was that the radio was FM/AM/ then AMFM combined. It sent one side of a stereo signal through AM and the other side of the stereo signal through the FM (right before true FM stereo)

The sound, while not world class, was very decent due to the single end amp.

As for other stereos from that time frame, my Packard Bell stereo from 1963, uses 6BQ5 x2 in the output for 18 watts, with the correct speakers, damn near outperforms most of the Home Theater in A Box setups out there, with better bass that shakes the house on movie soundtracks, along with full range sound. Apparently the amp was designed by. Bob Carver, and the amp alone is high demand.

The Collaro changers in Magnavoxes were considered the best ever built, and were rated on the highest on record wear, meaning they did not tear up records. Voice of Music was right behind them. I have a fully restored, properly adjusted VOM from the 66. Record wear on it is non existent, and my second turntable is a Technics SL1200 with a Signet MR5b cart from 1988, so any noise, etc, would show up immediately.

Also, some GE's had Garrard. again, a high quality changer if properly adjusted, does well with record wear.
 
That's interesting about Bob Carver...

didn't know he'd worked for Packard Bell. He bought a Sears Silvertone amp and tuner/preamp out of a mid-level console from me 4-5 yrs ago for his "museum", I knew him through my audio magazine writing. I wonder if P-B made the electronics for Sears, seems a likely reason why he'd want one, at the time I was flabbergasted that he did, given his high-end design pedigree, but the P-B connection makes sense.

Most of the Single-Ended output amp consoles were found in low to mid-level models,
I had a small Zenith not long ago with 2 x 6BQ5s, however typically the better ones were Push-Pull designs with larger, usually still open-frame output transformers, mostly with 6V6, or 6BQ5 (EL-84) output tubes, sometimes with 7591, 6973, 6GW8 or others. Oddly, I've never seen a 6L6GC Stereo console.
 
I use ONLY

Vintage stereo stuff now, a 65 GE console in the living room, a 62 Phonola consolette in the bed room, and a 64 KLH with Lafyette tuner also in the bedroom,I have probably 1500 albums that I play , usually something every day,Westinghouse called their units Stereo Fidelity Consoles in the late 50s,The above pictured unit looks nice, looks to be early 60s..I decided to switch the main focus of my collecting to Westinghouse, not because I think it was the best all around product ever,just because I like it,really always have ,I still think the very best vintage stereo is a 3 channel Motorola..As for record wear from vintage units...I don't worry about it, because I keep a good needle in all my units, the KLH has a Garrard changer, the Phonola a VM and I don't know whats in the GE butI do know it has about as light a pressure on the tone arm as a Zenith of that age, which is pretty light..I don't have a atual Hi Fi unit, all mine are stereo.
 
Thanks..

If the weather would cooperate...and if it was my weekend off, I might make a road trip to see that one, I don't really agree with the statement that most old Hi Fi stereo consoles need work to be useful, I have had a Bose system....which I promptly sold and went back to a console, Im not interested in blasting power, im interested in warm rich tone that you get only in a wood cabinet with a tube amp, just as a modern electronic organ sounds tinny compared to a Hammond with a tube type Leslie speaker....but then, truthfully, I don't like anything made after 1970 or so..LOL..But what I despise most about newer audio stuff is those damnable digital tuners,give me a dial anyday!
 
norgeway,

GE used from this time frame usually used Garrard, or a special VoM designed for GE exclusively. By the late 60's they had switched a GE branded changer but I'm not sure what the base brand was.
 
think General Electric bought Glaser-Steers and used them for their own doctored up changers. I think the first ones after VM and Garrard were fairly decent, then when they started cheapening everything, forget it. 

 

Get your Westinghouse stereo console. Surely you have room for it, okay it's not tube or the creme de la creme of stereodom, but if it's functioning as designed it would have to have a respectable sound to it. I saw new Westinghouse consoles in the showroom of one dealer here during the late '60's. Their changer had a tonearm that the salesman said tracked at the weight of two aspirin tablets. The sets looked and sounded good, at least to me they did. (check out this Westinghouse armoire) 

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Oh look!

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Above, GE did buy Glaser-Steers. But aside from its ruggedness and the novelty of mixing speeds and turntable brake and same-speed change cycle regardless what play speed, Glaser-Steers was a clunker along the lines of VM/BSR. A rumblefest. Bearings? We don't need no stinkin bearings.

NONE of the nostalgic favorites above could support a high-compliance cartridge, except the Garrard that came with KLH, and just barely (Shure M44). Pardon my audio snobbery and slight editorial exaggeration, but I'd no more play my 50yo vinyl on a VM or G-S than I'd put my hand in a garbage disposer while it's running.

I built 5 'big iron' 6BQ5 Williamson amps. Nothing at all wrong with those and they remain sought after today. But I don't *think* that's what Westinghouse/GE/RCA were building, and only in TOL Magnavox/Zenith. Why I say you have to know exactly what's in it to know what it's worth.

And you STILL have to replace the VM/GS/BSR/Collaro with something that supports AT LEAST M44 or equivalent. M44 is at the low end of 'acceptable' compliance. It won't really PLAY records but it won't destroy them either.

Trust me, I've been qualifying audio components since 1958 with golden Aspergers ears.
 
HH Scott amps liked the "big Iron" Approach!They had the best bass response of any amp I used that had 6BQ5 or 7189 tubes in the output stage.Scott even used BIGGER output transformers in their 60W 6550Amps!Real sound good monsters!That was a problem with many other amp builders their transformers were too small and overloaded,saturated on LF program material.When I was more serious about Hi-Fi-used manual single play TT's.Still have my Rega and Grace cartridge.Use it with my Onkyo receiver.My "MAC" amps need caps and haven't found the ones they need.Frustrating.Want to use them again.
I can remember a GS TT at a music class in Jr High-was funky to watch the thing cycle records.Put it this way------DJ's are HARDER on records than ANY changer!!!If you work in a radio station when records were played on air-you will see-and the jocks were hard on TT's styli too-esp when "scratching"!The records that survived best at radio stations were those used in Easy Listening or classical stations-and ones that had Seeburg jukebox changers used in radio station program automation systems.The Seeburg changers used in radio stations-two types-one for 45's and the other for LP.
 
@arbilab,

Some of the early Collaro/Magnavox have been succesfully switched over to magnetic carts.

But I think you're missing the big picture. Norgeway really isn't interested in concert level sound quality, he wants an original Westie as it sits. Also, certain VM can support magnetic carts. It's an option on the VoM website.

DJ's use specfic needles that are designed for scratching. The bigger problem is cue burn, where the first second or so is worn out because the jock places the needle on the record, and hand spins the turntable to cue the record.

I have some on air recordings of a pop station from the 80's, when they are running pretty much all vinyl, and the sound was clean, no pops, nothing.
 
Hans - Westinghouse made a number of really nice looking consoles in both hi-fi and stereo models. I'm sure you will find one!! I've seen a few over the years, and for the most part they all had V-M changers in them. I have a Westinghouse portable record player that has a BSR changer in it. The next time I'm at the warehouse I'll see if I can't dig it up.

 

I think high-end audio is fascinating, although I don't own any such equipment. Like you, I have lots of records that I enjoy playing everyday. I like to stack four or five on a changer and let them play while I'm cooking, reading, working around the house, etc. I have a record player in the living room, the family room, the bedroom and the den, so I'm never without music! When we entertain at home, which is often, we have all the record players going!

 

Here's what I currently have in service - these are all hi-fi units...no stereos:

 

A Magnavox from about '55 with an English Collero record changer. Has a wonderful sound - the changer is fairly quiet.

A Steelman from the late 50's - it has a V-M changer and is my workhorse. This gets played almost daily. I like that the volume/tone controls are on the outside of the cabinet.

A Columbia table top unit from '54. This has the old V-M "Tri-O-Matic" changer in it, which is a little noisy, but this is probably my favorite machine because of it's incredible compact design and rich sound.

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those are some nice HiFi-s

there Kevin! That Steelman is quite unusual, I've never sen one. HiFi (non-stereo) is fun, and it's great for listening while working around the house or walking around. We have a Bogen DB-130 mono amp (2 x 6AV5 TV horiz amp output tubes!) in the LR feeding 2 JBL L-36s, so mono sound out of 2 speakers... who has time so sit down just to listen anyhow?
 
A question: Most of the vintage changers are shown with what appear to be original cartridges. Where on earth do you find needles / stylii for them?

Personal bias: I grew up with a circa '58 or '59 Magnavox console so the Collaro changers, with their elaborate record-changing procedure, are my favorite.

Update: Here's a photo (found via Google) that matches the changer in our Magnavox console: Tall speed and changer controls; white rubber pad on turntable, no record-sensing bar (often seen on circa '56-'57 changers). The info with the photo said this was a '59.[this post was last edited: 2/26/2015-14:03]

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A Collaro record changer will track 3 grams without breaking a sweat. The Collaro's velocity trip mechanism is an excellent design. Note that Magnavox began advertising tracking at 1/10 ounce when they switched to the Electro Voice 132 ceramic cartridge in the early 1960s. These machines are very easy on records, even styrene 45s hold up well on them.

The higher-end VM changers used by Zenith with the "2G" tonearm are also very easy on records and track at forces similar to the Collaros.

The GE built record changers are indeed a dumbed-down Glaser Steers design, and the motors are noisy, but the tonearms aren't bad and the GE brand ceramic cartridges have very good complaince.

The problem we have today is that all the original manufacturers of the better ceramic cartridges from the 1960s no longer make them, and the quality of the imported knock-offs is hit & miss.

A good source for ceramic cartridges and their styli today is Gary at thevoiceofmusic.com . He also offers good quality idler wheel rebuilding. See link below.

Ken D.[this post was last edited: 2/26/2015-11:40]

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/
 
I used to have a Wards Airline that was Westinghouse built

Date stamp was 1959 or 1960 IIRC. It had a VM changer, side-firing 12" woofers and 2 horn tweeters in front. It was very obviously a Magnavox knockoff. It had a tube amp that sounded quite nice, an AM-FM radio with a hookup for FM multiplex, and an auxiliary in on the amplifier.

It was a nice old stereo. Sounded great and had some real guts to it. I miss it.
 
I like these things for what they are, I won't apologize anymore for playing records on an Astro-Sonic, a Westinghouse, a Zenith Circle of Sound, an RCA Victor New Vista, a Truetone, a Sylvania, Philco, Airline, Penncrest, whatever. As long as it delivers clear sound and doesn't trash your records, and you're happy, go for it. You play your vinyl on a restored Califone classroom record player or the latest $10,000 stereo system, don't cave in to opinion. If you demand perfection and pay for it, nobody minds, just let the rest of us enjoy our weird choices. I've had people refuse to help me look for things I want because THEY didn't want such things. They don't want them, nobody else should have them either.

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My take on it...

I LIKE the sound of a console much better than components, I know someone who had a B and O stereo set that he played a fortune for years ago,it did sound good, and was a nice sleek setup, but to me it didn't sound one bit better than a good Motorola or Magnavox...or my GE.
 
I do love the pic #2 posted by 112561, that’s a nice Danish Modern console!

Some years ago I read a story about an older woman who had a TOL console stereo from the very early ‘60s. I think it was RCA. She loved music and kept the system up but eventually had trouble finding knowledgeable technicians and of course parts were often NLA, plus she wanted a CD player.

So she went shopping for a new system and found components at a good hifi store that sounded great but she just hated their look. In the end she made a deal with the store: the console was shipped to them where they stripped the electronics out and refurbished the speakers, then had a cabinet shop rework the interior so they could build in modern electronics (NAD as I recall). No doubt tube lovers would see this as a sacrilege but she ended out with a nice sounding unit that looked just like it always had.
 
When I was a kid..

A cousin had, and still has, a TOL Zenith from 1963, it has a weird changer that has a fold down 45 adaptor and a floating needle,the transformer burned up and I removed it and sent it to Colorado to a guy and had it re wound, that was 25 years or so ago, and she still has it, it really does have a rich sound, if im not mistaken it cost about 500,00 back then, which would be a fortune today, and it has as good a fm radio as ive ever heard, but Zenith always did have a great radio
 
DJ equipment well aware of it-even when the proper styli was used they still manage to tear them up and records.I also have a box of "Q-burned" records from cleaning out a transmitter site-Transmitter buildings are often where old radio station records go to retire or die.These places often have all kinds of treasures!Have had to replace MANY a styli and cartridges in radio stations-tonearms,too!And on occasion whole TT's.Technics DD TT's DON'T like soda or coffee spilled into them!
Magnetic cartridge conversion--TT must not have a magnetic platter and the motor must not be under where the arm and cartridge track.And if the magnetic is replacing a ceramic cartridge-a preamp will be required.Grado cartridges did work well in Collaro-Magnavox TT's.Grado made a magnetic cartridge that was designed to be used in changers.Don't know if they are still available.There are still a lot of Collaro/Magnavox TT's still in use out in the wild!
 
Ah, the big picture. Understood. Nevermind my audiophoolery then.

Ah, Westinghouse elevators. Here's something you're VERY unlikely to ever hear/see another human being say/write: I worked on Westinghouse elevators in the summer of 1965. Dad got me on with a waiver from the union. They were just installed. I was the apprentice to the verification/test engineer. FAScinating! Besides that, it paid roughly 3x minimum wage. I bought a Honda Sport 90 which I later sold for what I paid for it and a Sonor drum set which well-more than paid for itself over the following 10 years. (I was a pretty good cover drummer. Our band played warmup for the Doobie Brothers in 1974.)

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread.
 
The building I live in had Westinghouse elevators. They are in the process of changing them out. One is gone and the other is the process of being removed. Problem was that they were installed in 1986 and most parts are no longer available. New ones are Stanley. Is there someone in the Boston area that works on console stereos? I have a Zenith that was working well prior to the move and now has a lot of low static on the speakers and the cartridge needs some rewiring. Don't really have the time or the knowledge about this to fix myself. They could take it out and work it over or work on it at the house. Thanks

Jon
 
To whom it may concern

There are no fools here, only people who have likes and preferences. My complaints are with people I've had face to face contact with, who REFUSE to consider finding something I've dearly wanted for years and years, because it's garbage to THEM. My main system has a Collibri linear tracking turntable that programs like a CD player. The stylus broke, so it's currently useless. I have a Technics turntable that doesn't have the factory ground wire, so it's half useless. I have a 1980 Sherwood receiver with Infinity bookshelf speakers, TEAC CD player, and a dual TEAC cassette deck. I just love my old hi-fi consoles, stereo consoles, and I refuse to let them alone. 

 

There is an unnamed vintage console site that has some toxic entities on it. One guy loved to point out that Astro-Sonics with "non wood material" trimming are all "firewood with speakers". He blew a gasket when a prominent RCA Victor collector quite innocently used a photo of his, AND an immediate apology in an example of soiled grille cloth, and the statement that NO ONE was being singled out for ridicule, the picture was strictly for an example. Mr. Firewood hasn't posted since. I quit posting there because I got sick of hearing how solid state is the devil's tool.

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