What Is Up With Gain he Powder?

[rp2813]

The latest box of Gain I bought has the "he" logo on it, but now right below it is the verbiage "For Both" (FL and TL machines).

 

I've had nothing but oversudsing issues -- as in window completely obscured -- in my Affinity since starting on this new box, and am thinking that I can no longer buy Gain powder.    The machine has to go through a suds reduction routine almost every time unless I add liquid fabric softener to the wash cycle to knock down the suds.  It's worse with some items more than others.  Sturdy fabrics/cottons don't cause as much sudsing as synthetics.

 

What are my options now?  I've been buying Gain because Tide is rarely on sale, and the price difference is significant.  And aren't they both made by P&G anyway? 

 

I suppose paying more for Tide is better than destroying the bearings on the Affinity, but what if Tide powder is also making the "For Both" claim?

 

Any suggestions for alternatives?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Options

You call the 800 number on the box or go to the website and bitch like hell. Be sure to mention that you are going to blog about the high sudsing and ask what the hell they are thinking making a product that causes machines to go into extra rinses when parts of the nation are facing drought and water restrictions. You get your money back and/or a bunch of coupons--for a different brand.

 

[mamapinky]

gain

Ralph...I just recently in tha past month bought a 40 load box of gain original and the 120 load box of gain lavender they both have the HE logo along with a pic of a he and standard washer that says *for both*...this is the first gain I've bought in years...but even in my standard top loader it makes a lot of suds. I know top loaders can handle more suds but I hate double rinses in this water guzzler. ..and I didn't overdose it.Cheryl

 

[jerrod6]

Growing up my parents had front loaders.  Then you used the same detergent as for top loaders. The boxes had separate instructions for each.  Usually you used less in the front loader than you did in a toploader.  Dial/Henkel has been making Purex detergent for both top and front for the last year, so perhaps you need to use less for a front loader.

 

In general I use the least amount of detergent that will get the job done so I always use less than what the container says to do.  

 

I will be interested to see if this "use in both kinds" spreads to other P&G detergents including Tide.

 

I guess there is going to be some point, unless we have already reached it, in which there will no longer be top loaders with agitators and every machine will be "He"  so I guess we better start having a plan for that. 

 

[rp2813]

". . . I guess we better start having a plan for that.&#

Seems to me like Gain is planning for exactly the opposite by producing a formula that, instead of creating low suds for the front-load future, creates plenty of suds for top loading dinosaurs.

 

This makes absolutely no sense to me.  I guess I'll do a little searching on line to see if people are complaining about it. 

 

Enough bitching about non-phosphated dishwasher detergent got everybody to fix their formulas, so maybe the same can happen for those of us who have FL machines but prefer powder.

 

I can't imagine using less detergent than I already do.  Even just 1/4" deep in the scoop is enough to put the machine into anti-sudsing mode when washing certain items.

 

P.S.  The "&#" at the end of the "subject drift" field are not mine.  I put quotes there but when I hit "post" it produces &# even after I preview and re-preview, where it looks fine.

 

[mamapinky]

I have a standard TL but I usually buy HE detergent because I don't want all the suds their not beneficial. I like to see a few bubbles but not suds..I spend enough on water I can't be doing multiple rinses every time I wash..Cheryl

 

[toploader1984]

Gain

I just bought a bottle of tide (HE turbo) with april fresh, it did the same to my front loader, suds were halfway up the door, i complained and got the usual "you used too much" or "your machine has leftover deposits" response, which pisses me off because just the week before i tried the HE turbo in the original and even with a full cap there was basically no suds!!!! I got so angry i went to target and bought a couple of different versions of arm & hammer detergent which has almost zero suds and is cheaper, also bought snuggle instead of downy, take that P&G!!! Im done.

 

[toploader1984]

[No message]

 

[rockland1]

Gain

Last week at Sams I noticed the HE Gain as well and almost considered buying it.
Glad I didn't. Bought the usual pail of Wind Fresh which works very well.

 

[rp2813]

This sounds like the GM, Firestone & Standard Oil conspiracy from the 1930s that saw interurban railways ripped up all across the country in favor of buses.

 

I wonder if P&G holds any large interest in an appliance manufacturer and if they're out to destroy our machines.

 

If I were more tech savvy, I'd start a rant blog against P&G.

 

[mamapinky]

Ralph

Lol..there's enough ranting about P&G right here and rightly deserved and i'd bet P&G knows about it but as long as their product is still moving off the shelves they don't care. If they're changing their formula they have some agenda to benefit themselves not the consumers and they have a history of never letting well enough alone. Cheryl

 

[passatdoc]

So far Tide HE is safe, and there is always Henkel Persil at Walmart.

I use a coffee measure (2 tbsp = 30 ml) to dose my detergent for my FL Electrolux (4.3 cu ft drum). Depending on load size and soil level, I use 15-30 ml and never exceed 30 ml. For pre-wash, 10-15 ml. I use old style Gain HE, Tide HE, and Ariel and Henkel Persil brought back from Europe. Powders only. I never get suds lock nor major suds residue at end cycle.

FYI this is why I've shied away from Costco's powder marked as "HE" and as "safe for both types of machines". In England they still sell both types of detergent for those still using TL (twin tubs or what have you). They don't try to pretend that a single product works fine in both types of machines.

I recall directions on detergent boxes in the 60s advising customers to use less for a FL (i.e. 1/4 cup for FL, 1/2-3/4 cup for FL, depending on machine capacity; most new FL were Westinghouse and I believe did not vary much in capacity). For those who understood that oversudsing was undesirable in FLs, Dash detergent was available and they clearly promoted their low-sudsing action.

 

[toploader1984]

Persil

Please do not buy persil proclean it is worse!!! This is a pic of the persil filled cap to line 1 which is for "regular" loads it was not a small load eather and suds were halfway up the door, and my water is not soft, i tried using only a tablespoon full but the clothes do not come clean. Persil pods however do not suds.

 

[aquarius1984]

Toploader1984 why is that a regular load in your opinion? That drum is 1/4 filled with clothes at the most yet your using a dose designed for a FULL load which you clearly do not have in that machine.

 

[rp2813]

Water here is fairly hard.  I can't even imagine what the problem would be like if we had soft water.

 

As stated above, I use less powder than suggested, a practice I do remember from the days when Westinghouse owned the FL market and their machines worked fine on "LE" detergent.  My old clunker of a 1950 Westy did just fine with regular detergent.

 

I think mama's post #822098 above sizes up the situation with P&G well.  I was tempted to provide a link to this thread in the written (OK, typed) complaint I submitted to P&G, but I think I used all 4,000 allowable characters.

 

If original Wisk still existed and could be found in "HE" I'd never have used powder in the first place.  I don't think I have any option but to find a suitable "HE" liquid now, since the choices are many compared to powders.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Sudsing

I too, have had problems recently with too many suds in my Duet. Purex is a big no, and the Persil ProClean isn't ALL that great either. Tide liquid is still my to go to, but I have not tried the HE Turbo versions yet. I have been having a lot of issues with towels rinsing recently with 10 ppm water hardness (moderately hard). But, nothing is perfect...

 

[mamapinky]

Sent hubby to the store today to pick up cheer powder (had four 9$ off coupons P&G owed me lol) they also say *ForBoth*and the dosage instructions say line1 for med loads..line3 for large loads and line 5 for full HE loads...P&G obviously doesn't realize HE washers take less detergent than a standard TL so how can we expect them to make a detergent that is low sudsing for that said appliance.
By the way I had the coupons to replace a 120 load box of cheer that was all hard lumps..they were supposed to send two 9 $ coupons but sent 4 lol

 

[logixx]

Full HE loads

The rationale behind this is that high efficiency washers can take larger loads (up to two cubic feet more) than regular top loaders. More clothes mean more soil - thus more detergent.

 

[mamapinky]

Isn't Turbo lower sudsing? This cheer doesn't say turbo

 

[askolover]

Gain pods

aren't much better with suds. We've used them for a while, but....my problem is most American detergents are made for the HUGE machines most people buy here. I have a smaller Swedish machine and even with a FULL to the top load, suds can be a problem. Add to that our water softener and here we go. German Persil pearls aren't much better either. We just got a boatload of Wisk pods and they are 50/50 as to whether it will suds or not. I'm about to change the plumbing to my washer so it rinses in cold "hard" water instead of soft which will help. I love my water softener for everything else though. When I got my Asko in 1997 there was no such thing as "HE" detergent. I had to go on trial and error to find what I could use, but it's all different now. Powders like Bold, Fab, and Fresh Start were awesome back then.

 

[super32]

I thought it was just me. I bought a box because it's was cheap so I thought I would try it. I first tried in the FL. Like everyone else has stated it was way to sudsy. I quite using in the FL and it seems to work fine in my non HE machine. Tho I will admire I still have to be careful or I will have suds cake.

 

[rp2813]

Gain's Response

Here's the scripted response to my complaint (it's all my fault, of course) which truly insults my intelligence:

 

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">I'm sorry you experienced oversudsing while using Gain. I know how upsetting this must be. The new Gain HEC powder detergent should not produce too many suds when used as directed.</span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">There are a few situations that can cause this. They include: </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">
-- Using too much detergent for the amount of soil in each load. 

-- Water hardness level - less detergent can be used in soft water. 

-- Do you use cold water for most wash loads? You might be experiencing buildup of detergent and mineral deposits in the outside tub of your washer. This can happen when cold water is consistently used for washing. Here's how you can fix that: add 1/2 gallon of white vinegar to a full tub of hot water. Run the washer through a complete cycle without clothing. If this resolves the problem you may want to repeat the process every 6 months. 

-- Overloading the washer can be a cause. Suds can become trapped in clothing if there's not enough room for them to circulate freely. 

You can run an extra cold water rinse cycle to help reduce the suds level in your washer. <span style="background: white;">Changing the form of detergent you use – from powder to liquid and vice versa – may also help with the amount of suds you see. You could also use a product specially designed to clean the inside of washing machine, such as the Gain Washing Machine Cleaner.</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">A final word, it isn't unusual to see suds in the sink when the rinse water drains. The force of the water coming from your washer can generate suds as the tub empties. </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; background: white;">Since I'm not able to help the way I'd like via email, I'm following up by postal mail with a coupon for a future Gain detergent purchase of your choice. You should hear from me within the next 2-3 weeks. </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">
Thanks again for taking the time to write. 

Jim
Gain Team</span>

 

 

 

 

 

[toploader1984]

Gain

Same exact response i got! I was also angry/insulted! Which is why i have already switched to anything BUT pg products! I do admit that tide original (he turbo) does not suds neither does the febreze sport version BUT the version with downy april fresh (even with only a half of a cap) and a full load(which it says to fill to top line for large he loads) caused my machine to stop, plus pg changes the scents and discontinues scents so much i got tired of it.

 

[retropia]

I've had good luck with modest suds using All liquid in our front-loader. I've noticed they now have the label "HE safe for all washers," but so far, it still seems to be the best for low suds, in my experience.

Wisk liquid (also "safe for all") has improved their low-sudsing performance, though I have to be more careful with how much I use. Perhaps it is a more concentrated detergent.

I also had pretty good luck using Costco liquid detergent pods.

 

[washer111]

One of my mainstays in the laundry here at home is "Radiant Black Wash." The product is supposedly suitable "FOR ALL MACHINES." It is a liquid detergent

Initially, I had reservations about the stuff, and initially, I felt they were confirmed.
The stuff does foam up a bit more in the wash phase, and makes a loose foam during the rinses. However, the rinse water was clear.

Because I was using a cycle intended for half-loads (Minimum Iron), there was more water in the tub, combined with clothing that is get the full "drop/flop" wash action, it just created more suds. Altering the dosage seemed to help.

IIRC, there were a couple of other products around that are marketed for FL and TL machines at the same time. But I cannot remember them off the top of my head.

I had always felt that if you used a HE detergent in a TL, you were simply getting a more concentrated product, and therefore you could use less. Maybe this isn't the case?

 

[rp2813]

Today I bought a 68-load box of Tide Original HE powder.  It doesn't say "for both" on it.  It was the last box of it on the shelf.  Every other detergent I looked at indicated it was "for both" types of machines (except one -- see below).

 

I still have some of the Gain left to use up first, but if the Tide resolves the sudsing issue, I hope P&G will continue to make it in non-for both formula. 

 

I did see a giant well-priced 120-load box of Cheer, I think, but wasn't willing to risk buying that much of it in case it created too much suds, and I also don't know if Cheer is a P&G product that might end up with a "for both" designation at some point.  As stated above, I hope P&G considers Tide sacred enough not to screw it up with their "for both" formulation.

 

 

 

[tomturbomatic]

Why would P&G change products to a "for both" labeling when they have just come out with HE turbo clean? I would think HE turbo clean would be the direction in which they would be moving. I have yet to see great amounts of Tide HE turbo clean on the shelves of most stores where I shop. There must be warehouses full of old product.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

I find modern detergents do not use enough anti foaming agents hence the oversudsing however the own brand versions seem to use more and you get a few suds but not like the picture above.

 

[rp2813]

I gave the Tide a try and things are back to normal.  Even if there was any residue from the Gain in the bed linens I washed, it didn't cause sudsing.

 

I'm was not pleased that I paid more for a 68-load box of Tide than I had been for an 80-load box of Gain, but once I opened the Tide box I noticed the scoop was deeper than the ones that come in a box of Gain.  I'm not falling for it.  I'm using a Gain scoop, which will probably provide me with 80 loads.

 

As long as the Tide formula doesn't change, this will be the solution until Rosalie's finally hits the market.

 

[mamapinky]

cheer

Ralph...I have a box of cheer stay colorful from 2012 suds up a lot in my water hog top loader. .I also have recently acquired four 80load boxes of cheer stay colorful fresh clean scent that's labeled **for both** and it also suds up too much..if I use a scant 1/4 cup too much suds yet less isn't going to clean my clothes. Too bad cause I think I like the lighter fragrance compared to the scent of some other detergents. Let me know if you want to try the cheer before buying it..I will be glad to send a ziplock of it to you..have a good day Cheryl