Hello everybody. I would like to discuss about comparing the Whirlpool filtration dishwashers to their point voyager counterparts. First of all, the dishwasher my dad has is a Whirlpool gold point voyager dishwasher. It has the hard food disposer. The high-temp wash is a true one. My mom's Kenmore alternates spray arms. Hers has a filter and the high-temp wash option is anything but. I use Cascade complete citrus breeze action packs in my dad's dishwasher. Let me tell you, his cleans better than the new ones. By the way, my dad's operates all three sprays at once. Did I mention that I use normal/high-temp wash all the time. I do use heated dry most of the time. I bet you that dishwasher can take on my creations that are pretty hard to clean. Take my enchilada fettuccini dish for example. I boil my fettuccini noodles, but not cook them all the way. Meanwhile, I chop bell peppers and onions and brown them with the meat. I then add enchilada sauce. During this time, the oven is being preheated to 350 degrees. I have a 9 by 13 baking dish ready. I layer it (referring to the baking dish),starting with the fettuccini noodles, enchilada sauce mixture, sharp cheddar cheese, repeat. I put it in the oven for 25-30 minutes. I take it out of the oven and let it cool. I enjoy a plate of fettuccini enchilada with guacamole on top of it. Then, my plate, along with my family's plates and other dirty dishes go straight into the dishwasher with the rest of them. I put a cascade complete citrus breeze pack and set it on normal/high-temp/heat dry. I noticed when the dishwasher is in the main wash on the normal cycle, the thermal hold would be at 63 minutes. Meanwhile, my mom's would take forever to get the dishes clean with the same detergent. And I use rinse aid in both of them. I don't think my mom's would get my fettuccini enchilada and guacamole creation off the dishes! Low temp wash with the so-called high-temp wash on the filtration models! Weak spray! What do you think?
whirlpool point voyager vs. filtration dishwashers
- Thread starter gelaundry4ever
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timer display on dishwasher
When I say 63 minutes, that is with the high-temp on. Never mind the fettuccini enchilada creation I came up with since 2013. It was just an example of food this dishwasher can take on. Notice I didn't put strain noodles because that is obviously getting done after boiling. Anyway, my mom's Kenmore dishwasher has idiot lights. My dad's Whirlpool has a timer display. Let me tell you! My dad's dishwasher lets its presence known!
When I say 63 minutes, that is with the high-temp on. Never mind the fettuccini enchilada creation I came up with since 2013. It was just an example of food this dishwasher can take on. Notice I didn't put strain noodles because that is obviously getting done after boiling. Anyway, my mom's Kenmore dishwasher has idiot lights. My dad's Whirlpool has a timer display. Let me tell you! My dad's dishwasher lets its presence known!
Hugh...
Didn't we have that discussion about a hundred times already?
If you don't know what you buy and how you use it, you can not expect it to work.
The PV works. Really well. It is a tested and proofed design. But factly, it is out-dated.
The new WP designs have been proofen to be not execptional good. But that is well known.
BUT there is a good bunch of new HE DW that will clean as well (or better) than the PV while being not even noticed and using quite a bit less. Just take a look in this thread:
www.automaticwasher.org
Didn't we have that discussion about a hundred times already?
If you don't know what you buy and how you use it, you can not expect it to work.
The PV works. Really well. It is a tested and proofed design. But factly, it is out-dated.
The new WP designs have been proofen to be not execptional good. But that is well known.
BUT there is a good bunch of new HE DW that will clean as well (or better) than the PV while being not even noticed and using quite a bit less. Just take a look in this thread:
Modern Dishwashers
Either I have turned into a cranky old man or I'm just a fed up consumer. When did using an automatic dishwasher in this day and age turn into complete frustration? In my day you went to the grocery store and bought Cascade, Electrasol, Palmolive, etc and there wasn't a million different...
www.automaticwasher.org
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
My Maytag
is pretty new. Only 6 or 7 months old. It's a point voyager with stainless interior and I freaking LOVE it!! Best dishwasher I've ever had. I guess Maytag still makes the point voyager system and I guess that's how they claim that largest motor on the market.
is pretty new. Only 6 or 7 months old. It's a point voyager with stainless interior and I freaking LOVE it!! Best dishwasher I've ever had. I guess Maytag still makes the point voyager system and I guess that's how they claim that largest motor on the market.
Best Currently Available DWs
The new MTs are very good, we are mostly selling them, with a few WP filter machines and quite a few KA models mixed in.
Whirlpool Is still building the worlds best DWs in Findley Ohio, they consistently have top rated DWs in leading testing magazines.
Bosch, Miele, Samsung, LG and several other DWs brands are so difficult to service that these machines are all essentially throw-away machines,so while some of these machines work pretty well for a while be prepared for really big repair bills and frequent replacements of the entire machine.
The new MTs are very good, we are mostly selling them, with a few WP filter machines and quite a few KA models mixed in.
Whirlpool Is still building the worlds best DWs in Findley Ohio, they consistently have top rated DWs in leading testing magazines.
Bosch, Miele, Samsung, LG and several other DWs brands are so difficult to service that these machines are all essentially throw-away machines,so while some of these machines work pretty well for a while be prepared for really big repair bills and frequent replacements of the entire machine.
washerdude
Well-known member
I will say...
Our BOL kenmore 15113 dishwasher has treated us well. We really didn't want an expensive unit consdering all the whirlpool units are made the same (exept maytag). Both of its spray arms move simultaneously. Infact I ran it for a split second with the door open and the spray was pretty harsh. The bottom spray arm was able to reach the top with no issue at all. Honestly enough, whirlpool dishwashers are good (Despite how i said they were going downhill which i take back) I think this design is pretty reliable and works well. In fact if sani rinse is enabled, the filters are virtually self cleaning. No complaints here, dishes have always been coming out clean and dry.
Our BOL kenmore 15113 dishwasher has treated us well. We really didn't want an expensive unit consdering all the whirlpool units are made the same (exept maytag). Both of its spray arms move simultaneously. Infact I ran it for a split second with the door open and the spray was pretty harsh. The bottom spray arm was able to reach the top with no issue at all. Honestly enough, whirlpool dishwashers are good (Despite how i said they were going downhill which i take back) I think this design is pretty reliable and works well. In fact if sani rinse is enabled, the filters are virtually self cleaning. No complaints here, dishes have always been coming out clean and dry.
Bosch and Miele
I can only insist on you takeing this back, combo52.
Mieles are cramed (true) but servicing is just as easy as on any DW. Take it out, flip it over. Miele isn't the best to service, but throw away at no point of time. Simply because if something fails, it is usually far less severe than with other DWs.
And if Bosch would be a throw away, I doubt it would be the most sold DW design and by now most advanced, and best known DW design of the EU. True is, the US design is different, but the basic parts are still the same.
I just don't see a reason why they should be harder to service.
I can only insist on you takeing this back, combo52.
Mieles are cramed (true) but servicing is just as easy as on any DW. Take it out, flip it over. Miele isn't the best to service, but throw away at no point of time. Simply because if something fails, it is usually far less severe than with other DWs.
And if Bosch would be a throw away, I doubt it would be the most sold DW design and by now most advanced, and best known DW design of the EU. True is, the US design is different, but the basic parts are still the same.
I just don't see a reason why they should be harder to service.
With some US dishwashers, you can practically remove the wash unit (pump etc.) from inside of the tub - it lifts out similar to the filter cup.
Lift-out pump
This one looks a little more complicated
Lift-out pump
This one looks a little more complicated
"Take it out, flip it over"
This is why I won't service a Bosch or Miele dishwasher. With unhooking the water supply, drain line, and electric, then getting it out from under the counter, then having to reinstall, you can add about an hour to the labor charge. Almost all major repairs to a Whirlpool built DW don't require moving the unit. I installed a pump and motor assembly on a Bosch once, and will never do it again, even after it was out and on it's back, it was still a pain to get the bottom off to get to the motor.
This is why I won't service a Bosch or Miele dishwasher. With unhooking the water supply, drain line, and electric, then getting it out from under the counter, then having to reinstall, you can add about an hour to the labor charge. Almost all major repairs to a Whirlpool built DW don't require moving the unit. I installed a pump and motor assembly on a Bosch once, and will never do it again, even after it was out and on it's back, it was still a pain to get the bottom off to get to the motor.
arris
Well-known member
Bosch & Miele
Henene4
Do you repair appliances ??? Have you worked on the units ??? If so,since we all share on this site, offer advice and help each other, why not offer some of your repair expertise ???
Henene4
Do you repair appliances ??? Have you worked on the units ??? If so,since we all share on this site, offer advice and help each other, why not offer some of your repair expertise ???
Best Currently Available DWs
Hi Henene4, Thanks for backing up my point about the necessity of removing most European DWs to repair them. We have found in our business that few people will repair a DW if it has to be removed for repairs. As my neighbor-customer up the street a few years ago said when I found that her 6 YO Bosch DW needed a new main pump and motor, " if you are going to have to pull it out to repair you may just as well bring me a new DW " She went on to say that the Bosch didn't hold nearly as much as her previous WP built KM Power-Clean DW did and the Bosch always smelled bad as well, so in went a New WP DW.
Henene4 it would be very helpful if you filled out your profile a little more, maybe a name and what your qualifications are if you want to be taken seriously, Thanks John.
Hi Henene4, Thanks for backing up my point about the necessity of removing most European DWs to repair them. We have found in our business that few people will repair a DW if it has to be removed for repairs. As my neighbor-customer up the street a few years ago said when I found that her 6 YO Bosch DW needed a new main pump and motor, " if you are going to have to pull it out to repair you may just as well bring me a new DW " She went on to say that the Bosch didn't hold nearly as much as her previous WP built KM Power-Clean DW did and the Bosch always smelled bad as well, so in went a New WP DW.
Henene4 it would be very helpful if you filled out your profile a little more, maybe a name and what your qualifications are if you want to be taken seriously, Thanks John.
jerrod6
Well-known member
" if you are going to have to pull it out to repair you may just as well bring me a new DW "
What is the reasoning behind this statement?
What is the reasoning behind this statement?
It takes quite an effort to fully uninstall a dishwasher--and takes time. If a repairman has to go to all that trouble, take advantage of the unit being removed and replace it with a brand new one. I can understand the logic.
But why is it so difficult to remove a dishwasher? It seriously takes me less than a minute to remove my Bosch: pop the kitchen's toe kick off, lower the dishwasher's legs one turn (all accessible from the front) and pull it out. Less than a minute. The water hoses are very long and unplugging the dishwasher takes one sec.
And from this point on...
It should be round about 15 minutes to remove the drain pump, the main recirculation pump, the heater or the water softner on a Bosch if you know what you are doing. On higher end Bosches you might have a bit less space if they have a Zeolith drying system.
On a Miele, the procedure of removing the main pump might take a bit longer because of the Turbothermic drying fan being in the way.
Certanly, I know my stuff. I don't service the professional, nor do I service them often. But I know what I say. And if you take a look at my number of posts, I contribute where I can.
But maybe, we define "throw away" a bit different. For me, a DW that costs several hundred €/$ and needs a service call every 10 years is not throw away because it costs 10 minutes more in labor. For me, throw away means not repairable or at costs that are in no relation to the price of it new.
It should be round about 15 minutes to remove the drain pump, the main recirculation pump, the heater or the water softner on a Bosch if you know what you are doing. On higher end Bosches you might have a bit less space if they have a Zeolith drying system.
On a Miele, the procedure of removing the main pump might take a bit longer because of the Turbothermic drying fan being in the way.
Certanly, I know my stuff. I don't service the professional, nor do I service them often. But I know what I say. And if you take a look at my number of posts, I contribute where I can.
But maybe, we define "throw away" a bit different. For me, a DW that costs several hundred €/$ and needs a service call every 10 years is not throw away because it costs 10 minutes more in labor. For me, throw away means not repairable or at costs that are in no relation to the price of it new.
Just to clarify...
The part with the number of posts was directed to arris, who funny enough joined exactly 9 days after me.
The part with the number of posts was directed to arris, who funny enough joined exactly 9 days after me.
I believe it is not so much the dishwasher but the American kitchens and the way dishwashers are installed are the problem. Europe has a much more ingenious way of installing dishwashers, which is partly caused by the European standard kitchen design.
Here's a video about installing an American dishwasher:
And here is one for a European dishwasher:
The last video is in Dutch, but you only have to see the pictures to get the idea.
Here's a video about installing an American dishwasher:
And here is one for a European dishwasher:
The last video is in Dutch, but you only have to see the pictures to get the idea.
Good point, Louis. The European way is much more plug 'n' play - no messing with wires etc.
Installing a European vs A US DW
Thanks for posting these videos Louis, to me it is about a toss up as to which is easier, it is certainly easier to level a European DW and you can really see the amount of inside space that is sacrificed on European DWs with the very long legs.
Both of these installations are about ideal in terms of ease, no built-up floors in front, old plumbing problems etc to deal with, I am always thrilled when we encounter an installation this easy and in our area not one in twenty are close to this easy.
Thanks for posting these videos Louis, to me it is about a toss up as to which is easier, it is certainly easier to level a European DW and you can really see the amount of inside space that is sacrificed on European DWs with the very long legs.
Both of these installations are about ideal in terms of ease, no built-up floors in front, old plumbing problems etc to deal with, I am always thrilled when we encounter an installation this easy and in our area not one in twenty are close to this easy.
