Why Do All Speed Queens Spray Rinse While Full of Water?

[ryner1988]

Reply #37

John, you are quite right regarding the fact that electronic washers need to be well-designed and usable by all. I know it can be done, because it has. In 2007, I attended a center for the blind where they taught adaptive ways of performing various daily living skills, learning technology, etc. They had a washer and dryer set, Whirlpool duets to be exact, that were very accessible. They were electronic but the knob to set cycles had distinctive clicks, the modifier buttons were arranged sensibly and easy to feel, and different tones represented variations in water temperature, soil level, and spin speed. I believe that design went away when the duet line was discontinued, have no idea about Whirlpool FL's accessibility now but I believe they switched to a completely flat control panel. So yes, I am aware electronic washers can be made extremely usable, and it's upsetting that more and more manufacturers are opting for flat panels if not outright touch screens. I mean come on. I'm not a mechanical die-hard by any means but what the heck is wrong with a plain old button? I don't understand why touch screen is becoming so much the norm. Aesthetic appeal maybe?

 

[ryner1988]

Slight correction...

I guess, thinking back, it was 2009 when I attended the blindness center, not 2007. Forgot I did it too years into college, rather than directly after high school as many people do. I think the duets they had at that time were fairly new, but I'm not sure when the accessibility features were introduced to the line-up, nor the exact year the Duet was discontinued.

 

[qsd-dan]

"All spin drain machines have the potential to leave scum and lint plastered on clothing."

That's funny, I have never had that problem in 35 years of personally running Maytags.

"Having been a Maytag tech for and availing myself to the factory training for over 30 years this was often talked about the lint redistribution problem it was not put in manuals very often but there are references to it."

Never had those problems.

"Hi Dan in reference to reply Number 20 If you look at the GE service manuals when they change the whole pattern in the sides of the wash basket in the late 60s they talked about the reason they did this was to reduce the amount of streaking on dark colored clothing from lint and detergent residue."

We're discussing Maytag here and you have provided no evidence. You also have provided no evidence for GE or Speed Queen other than "Trust me Bro" promises. Scan and post the articles. Put up or shut up.

"Maytag redesigned the balance ring on the dependable care washers when they went to the new tub cover this was to prevent the water from splashing over the edge of the tub and back over the clothing over and over again this was talked about in service training."

Evidence, please. Maytag redesigned the tub cover because it was much faster and easier to remove/install vs the older style. It's a nice design but the cover gasket doesn't last nearly as along as the older triangular seal. There's also no adjustment that I know of in the newer style tub cover to compensate for damper pads that glued a bit down or off center like the older design. I just checked to the upper portion of my tub cover, there's no dirt, scum, or deposits under there. I must be doing something right.

 

[bewitched]

from the picture of the electronic board I could say you have to change the electrolytics as they seem leaking.

 

[pierreandreply4]

might not be related to the subject

i have a maytag washer nut the washer i have the way its made it dispense the fabric softner on the second rinse if the option is on it also depends on model you have or buy since electronics are not the same depending on the model of washer or brand

 

[Chetlaham]

Leaked Caps

@bewitched: You are correct. The caps have leaked, an inevitable early failure which I am being told is justifiable based on being able to shut off early if the heater burned out.

Because in the end, why would anyone deserve this happening to them? >>>





The 40 year old GE dryer:

 

[combo52]

40 year old GE electric dryer

I don’t think you could’ve picked up potentially more dangerous dryer.

It was very common for the heating elements to short out in the zone ground to the housing or to the second heating element.

There’s no safety thermostat or thermal fuse on The right side of the heater circuit.

So you take a 15 to 20 year old GE dryer where the timer hasn’t worked for a year or so and a slightly clogged vent the user puts a load of clothing in either runs to pick up the kids or heaven for bid goes to sleep or falls asleep with the dryer running and you’ll be lucky if you wake up you could wipe out a whole family and a house from the resulting fire once the vent tubing catches fire and the clothing of course is already burning.

No thank you I’ll take the dryer with the circuit board that at least controls a potentially dangerous appliance

John L

 

[Chetlaham]

Now your thinking!

In your example the soft heat control board still won't fully protect occupants because 1 hour and 10 minutes would need to elapse before 2,700 watts of heat (heater coil shorted in the center) are disconnected. Yes you have a thermal fuse on the blower housing that would drop the motor and in turn the right side of the heater, but that relies on air flow from a relatively unobstructed vent.

My solution to this would be what Maytag did: add a double pole high limit on the heater housing, switching both sides of the heating element:

https://www.applianceaid.com/images/de312diagram.JPG

In conjunction with two thermal fuses on each leg of the heater as the assumption I make being that all high limits will eventually weld themselves closed.

Most US dryer manufacturers made and still make this awful mistake of not having any type of comprehensive thermal protection on the right side of of the heater circuit, even major players like Whirlpool:

https://www.applianceaid.com/images/siedelectronicwd2.JPG

To me this is unspeakable and should never have been allowed. 240 volts in the US is 120 volts to ground. Even then a person should never rely on polarization in a 230 volt L-N system.

But thats point I've been trying to make all along. Dryer fires can be eliminated via low cost passive measures vs complex and unreliable schemes which in of give rise to other shortcomings.

I'll take more thermal fuses over anything else, but it seems like it take gobs of dryers fires to get people to look past dogma.

 

[Chetlaham]

And in defence of that GE dryer

Technically there is a safety thermostat on the right side of the heater circuit. The motor's neutral is run through it and its mounted to the heater's housing.

If the heater hosing did begin to overheat from a grounded heater the high limit would open dropping the left side of the heater, while the safety stat would then open dropping the motor which would cause the centrifugal switch to open the right side of the heater.

If anything having the safety on the heater housing or more ideal than whirlpool placing it on the exhaust blower.

-----But-----


Its all a moot point either way. Murphy's law has the final say. From my view of the world:

1) relays weld themselves closed
2) triacs fail shorted
3) timer contacts weld closed
4) centrifugal switches fail to open
5) cycling stats weld shut
6) high limits weld shut
7) thermistors read as they please
8) motor burn out
9) non discrete failure modes come knocking with vengeance
10) there is no such thing as zero volts to ground

As such the only common sense solution IMO is to have thermal fuses on both sides of each heating element, with at least two on the theater hosing and at least two on the blower housing. Yet somehow this is to expensive, but a touch screen is always attainable.

 

[maytag85]

Maybe they should put a overheat buzzers in dryers where they use a double throw switch on the high limit safety thermostat and if it were to trip, it would sound a buzzer and shut the machine off to let the user know that there’s a airflow pro with either a full lint screen or restricted vent. Definitely would encourage people to have the venting clean along with cleaning the lint screen after each load.

 

[Chetlaham]

I can imagine something like that coming about, but with electronics.

I remember Kenmore had a whistle device that would sense the air pressure before and after the lint filter and would alert if the screen had not been cleaned.

Smart idea.

 

[maytag85]

Reply #49

I believe some of the 1956 and 1957 Kenmore dryers had a light that would illuminate letting the user know to clean the lint screen.

 

[Chetlaham]

A Good Idea

Kind of like Kenmore Vacuums. They had a red light come on when the bag was full. I think Kenmore sold the best vacuums on earth. I have one of their last uprights from 2012. I love it.

 

[DADoES]

 
Some KA dryers have the lint-alert whistle.  I can't say about Whirlpool-branded units.

 

[panasonicvac]

I think Kenmore sold some good vacuums, maybe not the very best but I would still buy one today. Keep in mind that Kenmore is just a brand, they have other manufactures that make vacuums and other machines for Kenmore. Example Panasonic, they've made vacuums for many years under the Kenmore brand but they've also sold vacuums themselves as well. Mainly at vacuum stores where Panasonic had put more money into their machines to make them even better. I totally would've bought a Panasonic over a Kenmore.

 

[Chetlaham]

What do you think of this vacuum? Its the one I have as of 2012. I love, love, love it.

https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m29...MIzqrc2dfp-gIVQYNbCh3VrQEZEAQYBCABEgJhh_D_BwE

You know more about vacuums than I do, however when it comes to major appliances I humbly chose Kenmore. While they are made by others like Whirlpool; Sears had tremendous control over the features, cycles, build quality, and just about anything else imaginable. I often found the best features for the lowest prices on Kenmore machines. Cycles and features not found on other brands. Having a company like Sears who knew what consumers wanted and a company like Whirlpool who knew how to build working mechanics meant a win-win product that had it all for the price.

 

[combo52]

Kenmore branded Appliance build quality

There was never any difference in build quality of Kenmore appliances and the appliances that the manufacture built for their own brand.

The Kenmore brand did have some pretty good appliances at one point, but their stoves are always crap their dishwashers were crap until whirlpool came into the picture in the mid 80s.

The last decade or two of appliances got really bad because they literally had eight different companies making them, and you could no longer count on the Kenmore brand giving you a great product it was just a crapshoot.

John L

 

[foraloysius]

If it's for the den, I'd look into electric underfloor heating. Heating up the garage is a very inefficient way to attempt to get the den warmer. You would use a lot of energy and the result might not be too great. You'd have to heat up the garage to a quite high temperature.

 

[panasonicvac]

Made by Panasonic

That vacuum was alright, not my favorite because it uses a direct drive brushroll. I wished Kenmore was still selling their Professional 12 & 15 uprights because those were in my humble opinion the best Kenmore upright vacuums ever sold. They were made in Germany like when Kenmore had their front load washers made in Germany at one point. But those vacuums were made by Sebo. They make and sell professional commercial grade vacuums for hotels, offices, schools, churches, etc. They are like the Speed Queen of vacuums! Anyways, I wished Sears was still selling them because they use belts that are guaranteed for life. The purpose of direct drive brushrolls is they never use belts, they use a motor to drive the brushroll. But they were proven to be problematic and I never found them to clean as well or better than belt drived brushrolls. That's why Panasonic themselves quit making direct drive brushrolls on their own vacuums. I have a couple of Professional 12 uprights and they're one of my all time favorites! When your Kenmore dies, I'd highly recommend to look into Sebo at your local dealer. They're one of if not the best vacuum companies out there!

Courtesy to gmerkt on vacuumland.org

Sebo

Sebo

www.sebo.us

 

[Chetlaham]

Noted. I'll check out Sebo.

Does Sebo have any models without electronics? I like across the line motors. To many vacuums seem to be coming with inverters?