Well it's running and beginning to cool. Amp. draw is a steady 4.9. We'll see in a few hours. Let's hope the third time is the charm.
1966 General Electric Spacemaker 19 Refrigerator MOD. TCF19DBC P.2
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Well it's running and beginning to cool. Amp. draw is a steady 4.9. We'll see in a few hours. Let's hope the third time is the charm.
90 minutes later, looking good. 31F in the refrigerator @ #7 on the cold control, 5F in the freezer @ #5 on the cold control.
Nice and cold.
Compressor cycling on and off normally. However the condenser fan has not cycled off yet. I was under the impression that if the compressor cycles off, the condenser fan does too.
Compressor cycling on and off normally. However the condenser fan has not cycled off yet. I was under the impression that if the compressor cycles off, the condenser fan does too.
Wow!
It's beautiful! I'm looking forward to hearing that it is running smoothly and cycling on and off as it should.
How does energy usage compare to a modern refrigerator?
Sarah
It's beautiful! I'm looking forward to hearing that it is running smoothly and cycling on and off as it should.
How does energy usage compare to a modern refrigerator?
Sarah
Yay Running again, The condenser fan motor is supposed to be wired with the compressor so it shuts off and runs only with the compressor.
I am still a little concerned about the almost 5 amp draw, did you try adding a compressor run capacitor ?
Energy consumption ? This ref when running properly according to the GE service Manuel will use about 154 KWs of power a month, that's 3 times what a modern FF 20 CF ref uses, the good news is that many vintage refs this size like Amana, WP-CS, Admiral, Philco use almost 200 KWs for a Similar size ref.
John L.
I am still a little concerned about the almost 5 amp draw, did you try adding a compressor run capacitor ?
Energy consumption ? This ref when running properly according to the GE service Manuel will use about 154 KWs of power a month, that's 3 times what a modern FF 20 CF ref uses, the good news is that many vintage refs this size like Amana, WP-CS, Admiral, Philco use almost 200 KWs for a Similar size ref.
John L.
Thanks Sara. Except for the condenser fan issue, it continues to cool just fine. As for power consumption, it must be a lot higher than a modern refrigerator. However, that may be a mute point if you have to replace the modern one every 3 years with a new one. Anyone want to wager how many LG's will be running 20 years from now?
Hi John! I basically reconnected everything how it was originally. I guess somewhere I miswired the condenser fan. I will be doing a schematic showing exactly what I did and hopefully correct this. The running amp. draw is 4.9. I did not install a running capacitor at this time. Power draw is hovering around 329 watts while compressor is running. So far I haven't been able to find the normal watt usage for this particular model. So I don't know if what I am reading is within the normal range. The refrigerator is located in an area where the ambient temperature never goes beyond 75F.
I made a slight repositioning of the wire coming from the Guardette to the relay. It was originally plugged into the bottom right tab (1), now it is located on the tab directly above.
This is in preparation of installing a run capacitor.
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I plugged in the run capacitor. Amp load was plummeting down to 3.9. Then it began to climb quickly to about 6.1. I was unplugging the refrigerator when a flash, then click. I removed the run capacitor and reconnected everything as it was. Compressor will not turn on. So I either burned out the Guardette or the start relay. The fun never ends.
What I did:
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Louis .....
By your pictures it appears you are connecting the run cap to the wrong side of the relay coil at point "A". Needs to be at point "B". The "M" side of the coil, not the "L".
Did the guardette pop? If it is the type that has the internal heater, you'll have to wait till it cools and resets, else it is the thermal fuse type and has to be replaced if it pops.
By your pictures it appears you are connecting the run cap to the wrong side of the relay coil at point "A". Needs to be at point "B". The "M" side of the coil, not the "L".
Did the guardette pop? If it is the type that has the internal heater, you'll have to wait till it cools and resets, else it is the thermal fuse type and has to be replaced if it pops.
It may very well be connected not-per-drawing; however I would not expect this to have caused a flash-bang sort of incident. I would look closely at the relay's internal wiring. It may or may not be feasible to connect it per the drawing with this exact relay. It seems that the right-side pin on the compressor is the R terminal, and the relay coil winding goes into the socket for this pin, without any provision to connect an external wire. There may be no alternative but to connect it as you had it, with the capacitor current going through the coil. The relay has a 9 amp pickup, so it shouldn't have been activated by the small current from the relay.
It would be a good idea to test the capacitor with a meter (having capacitance test mode) as well as testing for shorts in the capacitor.
If the capacitor shorts, the effect will be the same as the start-relay staying in start mode. That would cause high current and a tripping of the overload.
The capacitor and motor winding form a resonant circuit. The voltage on the capacitor can build up to a higher voltage than the motor's supply voltage. Depending on the design of the motor and capacitor, it could have very well exceeded the voltage rating of that super-cheap plastic capacitor.
If the cap is failed now, that would be something I would look into for the next one. They sell standard voltage ranges with 250 being followed by something in the high 300 to 400V range.
All of this depends on the motor's winding design and size of the capacitor. If someone else has done this and knows, hopefully they speak up. If not then the only way to know is to test and measure.
Here is a selection of caps which could possibly suit the bill: https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=run+capacitor+15uF
Regardless, after everything cools off, the circuit breaker should reset. Unless something shorted to ground, or to the motor's C terminal, the capacitor failure could not have created a direct short which could damage the Guardette. It could have only created an overload condition by the start and run windings in effect at the same time, which would cause the Guardette to trip; and then require a delay before it works again.
Don't give up!
It would be a good idea to test the capacitor with a meter (having capacitance test mode) as well as testing for shorts in the capacitor.
If the capacitor shorts, the effect will be the same as the start-relay staying in start mode. That would cause high current and a tripping of the overload.
The capacitor and motor winding form a resonant circuit. The voltage on the capacitor can build up to a higher voltage than the motor's supply voltage. Depending on the design of the motor and capacitor, it could have very well exceeded the voltage rating of that super-cheap plastic capacitor.
If the cap is failed now, that would be something I would look into for the next one. They sell standard voltage ranges with 250 being followed by something in the high 300 to 400V range.
All of this depends on the motor's winding design and size of the capacitor. If someone else has done this and knows, hopefully they speak up. If not then the only way to know is to test and measure.
Here is a selection of caps which could possibly suit the bill: https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=run+capacitor+15uF
Regardless, after everything cools off, the circuit breaker should reset. Unless something shorted to ground, or to the motor's C terminal, the capacitor failure could not have created a direct short which could damage the Guardette. It could have only created an overload condition by the start and run windings in effect at the same time, which would cause the Guardette to trip; and then require a delay before it works again.
Don't give up!
I'm thinking ....
David is on to something when he says the resonant voltage may have been greater than the cap rating.
The resonant voltage may have caused the relay coil to energize .... turning on the start windings during runtime .... causing the overload to pop.
It sounds as though it worked for a minute with the current measured at 3.9amps which is lower than the usual 5 amps without the run cap.
So yes, depending on the internal wiring of the relay, it may be difficult to add the required taps at points M and S of the relay to incorporate the run cap.
If you are able to add the required taps, I would try this cap instead.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Run-Cap-15...Run-Oil-Filled-Capacitor-uf-HVAC/401850106185
I agree, don't give up. [this post was last edited: 9/8/2019-09:54]
David is on to something when he says the resonant voltage may have been greater than the cap rating.
The resonant voltage may have caused the relay coil to energize .... turning on the start windings during runtime .... causing the overload to pop.
It sounds as though it worked for a minute with the current measured at 3.9amps which is lower than the usual 5 amps without the run cap.
So yes, depending on the internal wiring of the relay, it may be difficult to add the required taps at points M and S of the relay to incorporate the run cap.
If you are able to add the required taps, I would try this cap instead.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Run-Cap-15...Run-Oil-Filled-Capacitor-uf-HVAC/401850106185
I agree, don't give up. [this post was last edited: 9/8/2019-09:54]
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First of all, thank you Bud and David for all your help and advice. I deeply appreciate it.
After a few hours of the refrigerator being disconnected, I plugged it in again to see whether the Guardette had reset. Apparently it's toast. The refrigerator just clicks every 30 seconds or so. Everything else seems to be running. I have not tested it with a multi-meter yet, but I will shortly. As for the starter relay, it was plugged into the correct pins of the compressor.
IF, I can still use a run capacitor, which tabs on the capacitor would go to the starter relay?
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Hmm...
The MARS 35012 tests OK. Resistance is 0.1 of resistance.
The original Guardette tested OK as well @ 0.1.
The GEM start relay is reading 0.3 ohms.
The original GE starter relay reads 1.2 ohms.
Compressor is good too with readings from 5.5 to 3.1 ohms
So why the compressor does not start?
The MARS 35012 tests OK. Resistance is 0.1 of resistance.
The original Guardette tested OK as well @ 0.1.
The GEM start relay is reading 0.3 ohms.
The original GE starter relay reads 1.2 ohms.
Compressor is good too with readings from 5.5 to 3.1 ohms
So why the compressor does not start?
If the compressor is clicking and not starting, as long as the compressor ohms out ok I’d replace the relay
That is definitely a possibility Eugene. I spoke with Bud and he had suggested the same thing. I am going to try with the original G.E. starter relay to see if the compressor kicks in. The GEM relay I was using may have a short internally. Keep your fingers crossed.
Zilch.
No change. Apparently the old GE relay has an internal short as well.
Just ordered a replacement.
No change. Apparently the old GE relay has an internal short as well.
Just ordered a replacement.
Just installed the replacement. No change. Just clicks as if trying to start. So all the other relays must be good. Could it be the Guardette?
Ran a series of tests with David. The compressor is fried. Thanks everyone for all the help. I guess it was just not meant to be.
[this post was last edited: 9/13/2019-20:19]
Oh no, Louie. I'm so sorry to hear this. I was really hoping it would have worked out. Any chance you would get the compressor replaced?
