Dishwasher on cold water!

[dustin92]

I have noticed that some friends of ours have a GE Nautilus dishwasher that has been it their house for at least 4 years (they rent and have been there 4 years) that has never cleaned overly well, despite being run on heavy wash with every option selected. I was helping with the dishes last week and had started the dishwasher when I noticed a coffee cup that had been left out. I looked and it was just before the main wash, so I unlatched the door and put the cup in. The water was ice cold and I had run the hot water before starting it. They use those awful cascade action packs and the dishwasher sounds as if something is clogged up. I am suprised the dishes come as clean as they do. Everything is pre rinsed. I was wondering if there is any reason to tell them to have their landlord fix it, or just leave things alone?

 

[nmassman44]

Methinks that who ever installed the dishwasher put it on the wrong water line. Those dishwashers are not made for a cold water connection like a euro machine. I know with my Miele I can do a cold connection and in fact it loves a lower temp. I had set our water heater to have 145 degree water at the tap but my dishwasher didn't like it and I got error codes and it would kill the cycle and one code said to call for service. Since I lowered the water temp to 120 no issues at all. I will raise the water heater temp when I do laundry and then dial it down again when I am done.
But the GE machine should be on hot water line. The hotter the better.

 

[spankomatic]

I would tell them. It would be up to them then if they want to contact the landlord to have it fixed.

 

[petek]

agreed. Tell them and it's up to them to mention it to the landlord.. You think they would have clued in though but then again some people are totally witless about such things.

 

[washer111]

Doesn't a DW Heat Water

I know you're apparently supposed to use hot water for the dishwasher in the US, but WHY?

Modern machines HEAT the water don't they, or are the heaters rigged up so they don't work below 120F, so they can con you into a "repair job"?

It seems stupid the machine doesn't pause for longer to allow the water to heat...

 

[jamiel]

No, North American machines almost universally are hot-fill. We've got large storage water heaters (gas or electric or oil-fired) with plenty of capacity, (roughly 40 gallon capacity is standard) and only 120v electricity; so hot is the norm here.

 

[chris74]

Does this mean...

...US dishwashers don't have internal heating? I saw many pictures of them and most had the heating element unhidden in the tub...

 

[washer111]

IN Australia

We have large hot water storage tanks, and we heat water via THE SUN, yet we don't use hot connections on dishwashers.

Why? We probably use the lower temp cycles more often, so having 50C water doesn't help for a 45C Delicate cycle...

But really, WHY must US models be hot fill? Surely a few minutes on top of the 2+ hours taken won't hurt that much. Machines should be made UNIVERSAl, to be used on either connection. If you have hot water right there on tap (turn on tap and there is hot water right away almost), then use Hot, otherwise, with lengthy pipe runs, its pointless, and basically wastes energy - maybe that's why the OP's friend's machine is on cold, since the storage tank is "too far away" for it to be practical.

I can't understand why the US machines can't heat their water!!! ("ERROR Code 1: Water temp too low: Water heater disabled for money wasting purposes!")

 

[combo52]

Hot Water Fill DWs

 US DWs are designed to be connected only to a hot water line, DWs built since the early 1980s are all designed to run on incoming water temps as low as 120 degrees [ in some cases the user must select the correct cycle ] and all have booster heat.

 

We sometimes see cases where the machine inadvertently gets connected to the cold water supply or I have also seen cases where the installer thought that was the correct way to install the DW LOL. If I were the tenant I would insist that the landlord fix the plumbing.

 

I cannot believe that homes with solar water heaters would connect the DW to a cold water supply, that makes zero since if you have virtually free hot water to burn coal to generate expensive electricity and use that for heating the water to wash dishes. In the US the majority of homes have Natural Gas water heaters so again it makes more sence to use hot water from the water heater and let the DW do a slight boost rather than heating all the water the DW uses with expensive electricity. We now have the option of heat-pump water heaters here for folks that have to use electricity or oil to heat their hot water and of coerce Solar Water heaters are sometimes an option.

 

[jerrod6]

US DW heating their own water would cause the Energy Star police to have a heart attack.  They would end up giving the machine a lower energy rating.  Never mind that the energy was still consumed by an external water heater they are not rating the heater they are rating the DW.

 

[logixx]

Ditto on what Jerrod says. This is also the reason why the Normal cycle on Miele US dishwashers does two prerinses - so that the dishload is sufficiently preheated by hot tap water before the (electrically) heated wash begins.

Also makes me wonder why Bosch doesn't finally introduce heat exchangers in their US line-up. This would help to compensate for the heat loss in the hot water line that occurs between the wash fill and the rinse fill.

Alex

 

[washer111]

Energy Star having a heart attack? Bull!

Our models have heated water for years, and the government is more than happy for this to happen. Most manufacturers simply have the machine standard's tested on the Eco cycle, which generally uses less the 400KW/h per year. Our DD uses 263KW/h per year when connected to 20C water and is used once per day on Normal Eco, but, since we have ours connected to dodgy solar hot water (despite warm nights, its never hot in the morning, and I have to "fill up the heating loop" every weekend to have hot water), and the normal water temp is more than that, we probably use less energy on this cycle, especially if I waste water running the tap hot first .

I've noticed that Asko model's have a temperature button used to alter the temperature of the wash, and somehow this button can be used to achieve two pre washes and 1 main wash!

 

[pierreandreply4]

me i use the cascade packs and they work better for cleaning than any liquid and sometime certain dishwasher models for the heater to activate they need a jump start i have a kenmore elite dishwasher the cycle i use is smart wash option turbozone high temp for wash on the first start as my dishwasher sense the load it also heats the water my mom in her summer home has a bosch dishwasher and in order for the heater to quick in she runs the hot water from the sink for at least 20 minutes then start the dishwasher and maybe the dishwasher your friend has was link by mistake to the cold water line of the sink or the heater might be defective depending on the year.

 

[jerrod6]

Washer111 you are living under a different government with different energy expectations.  Perhaps the most efficient way to heat is with solar, next to that it may be by having each appliance only heat the water it is going to use.

 

But in the USA we have never had this.  Instead we have separate water heaters that heat 30 to 60 gallons of water and then keep it on standby in case we may use it.  With the Energy star program each appliance is rated on the amount of electricity it uses, so if an appliance is going to use electricity to heat water to a high temp that appliance is going to be rated as lower, as not buy, and the manufacturer will not get tax credits for selling the most effiicent machine.

 

KWH per year:  for 2012 the  USA Energy Star guideline  for DW is no more than 365 KWH per year.  If it fails this the manufacturer will not get a tax credit.  So you can guess they are going to try to best this usage.

 

So it is the case that many Dw sold in the USA explicitly state that the incoming water to the DW must be at least 120F.  On some cycles that are designed to heat the water to higher temps, after a certain amount of time has passed the heater just shuts off even if the target temperature has not been reached.   This is also why many DW sold today only heat water to  105F on their normal cycle.  So lets see,  water must be 120F to enter, and the DW only heats to 105F so the manufacturer expects the Dw to NOT HEAT any water and this is how they achieve their good energy rating.  Never mind it's not real world.

 

In my case I have a whole house tankless water heater that heats the water as it passes through, but I also have a very long pipe run through an unheated basement from the heater to the kitchen or any bathrooms, so by the time the DW gets the water it is not 120F it is cooler.  My saving is that I have a 2006 Miele DW that actually can be connected to cold water and can heat heat to 170F on some cycles.  That was 2006 with the normal cycle doing two prewashes before the wash so as  to get the water hot(which I why I never use the normal cycle),  this is 2012...who knows what is going on now  and I think 2013 will have even more restrictive standards.  At some time we have to reach an end point with this crap.

 

[dustin92]

I'm sure it is connected to the cold water line by mistake, the kitchen sink faucet is backwards too (hot on the right, cold on the left). We can't use the cascade pacs because they leave a horrible white residue on everything and don't clean worth a crap. We use the finish quantum pacs and they are awesome. I did check during the main wash and the water heater must be working because the water got up to maybe 110-115 degrees.

 

[launderess]

Not Wishing To Sound Racist Or Like Suzanne SugarBaker

But switched hot and cold water connections are rampant any where or time Mexican or certain other immigrants from South America do the work. Dont know why but it happens all the time.

When we had our kitchen sink and other areas redone the contractor brought in all "day labour" Mexican help and sure enough when one went to use the kitchen sink left was "cold" and right was "hot". Since then have spoken to many other persons in our area and they say it happened to them as well under the same circumstances.

The next plumbers hired (to put in the gas range) were from Poland and when we asked if they could correct the "error", they chuckled into their sleeves and were happy to oblige. One said he sees it all the time.

Now one is not sure if taps are connected differently south of the border or what, but other than than cannot understand why this happens.

 

[spankomatic]

We can't use the cascade pacs because they leave a horri

I had the same experience with them...

 

[washer111]

Energy star is obviously a JOKE! "When you buy your next home, INSIST on an "Energy Star" home - one with crappy dishwashers that can only heat their water to 100ºF when using a cold supply, to help save energy!"

We just have a "stars" system, which, whilst somewhat misleading in the refrigerator and television department (because of different styles or technology, the scale is different), it works better than "Energy Star Rated" products. Our energy labels state how much energy is used each when a product is used in certain conditions - water wise, electricity wise, gas wise, we get the generic 'star rating" and the actual consumption figure, which is what I always look at - since for fridges, the scale for the stars is different (a 6 star side by side fridge is less efficient than en equal capacity upside-down model)

I'll make an assumption here and say that most Australians have a style of storage water heating. But since our energy departments have always encouraged "washing in cold water' (Yes, even though most of us use Solar heated water), or connecting dishwashers to cold water (not mentioned, actually), the only hot water used might be by manual dishwashers or for your own bathing purposes - so we waste money heating say 300L of water, where the most used is generally only 150L for the worst shower offenders!

With many FL machines heating their water I think people in the US should insist [that horrible again] to the substandard local product manufacturers that their machines be able to take COLD incoming water - since many houses today I bet are built with water heater on the other end of the planet (just about, anyway!)

Or maybe, you could just buy European models which heat their own water. I know the Asko machines wouldn't get a good water rating here (base model, anyway), since it uses 16L for the "government" test cycle (Prewash, Wash, 2 Rinses) and 18L for the Normal "High Temp Option" cycle with 2 pre washes, but european's know how to do things the right way, the first time (no offence to Americans, but your Dishwashers really are "lagging behind the times")

Thats all I have to say... Whether people agree or not is their opinion. Personally, dishwasher's should be connected to hot water where it is heated in a environmentally friendly manner (solar, heat pump, geothermal or maybe gas), otherwise, give it a cold connection!

 

[ozzie908]

Cold water only !

I have never encountered a hot fill DW in the UK since the catering ones that are made to be connected to hot to help with recovery times.

All domestic machines have been cold fill only as most houses modern ones especially have no Hot Water storage tanks installed.
Even in my old house where I am now the hot water tank has been removed and a Combi gas boiler heats the water on demand and the heating. For some strange reason they fitted it upstairs so any hot water required in the kitchen you have to draw off 8 litres before it gets warm as my dishdrawer only uses 7 litre per cycle connecting it to hot would waste water and yes here too we are metered so use the correct amount of cold water heat only whats needed same as the washing machine and that is that pay for what you use only far better. I am also of the opinion that cold water DW wash just as well as they wash longer to heat the water I use the normal cycle and it take 1 hr 42 mins the process is a cold pre wash followed by a 55c main wash a cold rinse then a 65c hot rinse that does the drying. The DW also has lower temp washes for delicate items like cut glass etc which would be impossible to achieve with hot intake.
I in no way wish to insult/offend anyone from anywhere as I know our electricity being 230volt makes it easier to heat the water in the machine.

Austin