ASKO: Meet The 3 hour + 25 minute Dishwasher Cycle

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frigilux

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Wow! I know dishwasher cycles have grown in length over the past few years, but this ASKO (model D5893XXL) had a normal cycle length of 205 minutes in a recent Consumer Reports test.  Let's hope this doesn't become the 'new normal' for dishwashers---nor the price:  $2,000 

 

It used 7 gallons of water, which is more than my LG uses for a normal cycle.

 

 

 

frigilux++7-2-2011-15-56-25.jpg.png
 
Miele

My Miele takes 2 hr 45 min on the normal cycle. Not sure about water usage, but I paid 2300 for it. I guess I don't care how long it takes as long as it is silent and finished before bedtime.

Malcolm
 
My Miele dishwasher cost that much as well. Worth every penny too. I think mine takes about an hour and 45 mins on Normal. It varies by how hot the water is coming into it and soil level. She is running right now in fact as I type this.
 
Time!

It is abosoltly insane to run that long! My GE Tall Tub runs almost 1 1/2 and that is more than enough time. It is one of the first tall tub models. It does clean well. Even though I usually start it before I go to bed and don't unload until the next day I wouldn't want a machine that runs 2 - 3 hours. I really would rather wash them by hand! And also where is the energy savings with such long running cycles?
 
The largest aspect of energy use in a dishwasher

is the heated water, NOT the motor-pump-element, but the heated water.

My GE Nautilus takes about 90 minutes for the longest cycle, which I do not always use. Even if the longest cycle was 4 hours, the sheer wonderfulness of not having to stand at the sink is worth it to me.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
My typical GE cycle is about 55 minutes, speed cycle is 33.  Odds are I could use the speed cycle for most things but prefer the longer wash time.  I paid about $500 for it 5 or 6 years ago and to this day it does a fantastic job.  I'd be hard pressed to even consider paying much over $600-800 for a dishwasher.
 
Wow, that is way too long.
Three hours for the energy save cycle is way more than enough!

The normal cycle in my machine lasts 72 minutes and it uses 18 litres of water. (made in 2005) AAB class, 12 place settings. The ECO cycle is 140 minutes.
And this is from a BOL machine...

The normal cycle in my parents machine lasts 85 minutes and uses 13 litres of water. (made in 2009) AAA class, 14 place setting. The ECO cycle is 175 minutes.
This machine on the other hand is MOL.

Anyway, I checked the water use on the ASKO page and it says 13,9 litres, it's just under 3,7 gallons! Only a little more than my parents' dishwasher.
 
The Normal cycle on my LG automatically engages the soil sensor to determine the length/number of water changes for the cycle. Fortunately, it often opts to shorten the cycle, and I never pre-rinse dishes. Only on very rare occasions has it lengthened it.  The cycle time defaults to 2:19, but it's often done between 1:30 and 1:50, even when I add the steam and 160-degree final rinse options.  Most often, it uses 4.5-5.5 gallons of water.  If the load is small or very lightly soiled, it will use 3.5 gallons.

 

I'm guessing the ASKO also defaults to a soil sensor.  The load Consumer Reports uses for their tests is, by their own admission, quite a tough, heavily-soiled load.  The ASKO probably defaults to a longer cycle time with more changes of water.  I checked again, and it states the ASKO used 7 gallons of water for their test cycle.

 

Miele:  Two expensive new Miele dishwashers ranked at the very bottom of the ratings due to extremely poor cleaning results, partially the fault of wash arms that clogged during testing.  CR says that Miele has come up with a 'fix' for the problem.  They will undoubtedly retest the machines soon after they have been fixed.

 
 
Our Siemens from 2006 takes 2.5 hours on the ECO cycle and roughly 2 hours when using the autoNormal cycle. autoHeavy takes a little longer. It uses around four gallons on most cycles. Using the varioSpeed and Half Load options, I can clean and sanitize a not too heavily soiled load in 65 minutes.

Some dishwashers have a special night cycle of some sort. Whirlpool/Bauknecht has one that produces only 38dB as does the Miele Extra Quiet cycle. This particular cycle on the Miele runs 4:45 hrs.

Bosch/Siemens also have a 38 db dishwasher available but without a dedicated cycle for quietness.

As for conservation: Bosch/Siemens are the best as of now with a series of dishwashers that only consumes 1.7 gal. by recycling clean rinse water to pre-wash the next load. Now, Whirlpool announced a dishwasher that's supposed to only need 1,58 gal. as part of their Green Kitchen project.

Alex
 
LONG DW RUN TIMES

I will never have a DW that runs more than an hour, has the have dishes pre-rinsed, or that I have to clean messy filters on ever. I also like hearing the sound of water when my machine is running. I had a good customer that got a Miele DW and hated it because it took over two hours and didn't dry worth a darn, she said I want my old KA back and I always loved the sound of water as I thought I was at the ocean. Needless to say the Miele was only around a year or so and the first breakdown she said get me a real DW again and in went a standard tub KM Ultra-Wash machine.

 

I think it is interesting that CRs doesn't say how much electricity these new machines use running 2 or 3 hours. Also keeping a 2x2x3 foot box in your kitchen heated on the inside to around 140 degrees for 2 or 3 hours has to be putting an extra load on your homes AC system. The only benefit I can see in the new machines is water saving but this comes with wasting water rinsing dishes and then cleaning the sink and the stinking filter in the machine.
 
My european Whirlpool usually takes 1:20 for the "normal 6th sense" cycle.. It can vary between 0:50 to 1:50 , and it use between 6 - 15 L.
The "Heavy 6th sesnse" usually takes 2:10 .. It can vary between 1:30 to 2:30 , and it use between 9 - 18L.
BTW , its really quiet to, rated at 44 dBa :)
 
My WP tall tub on the pots/pans cycle (longest) high temp wash, no heated dry takes around 90 mins. I recently starting using this cycle because it rinses twice. The normal cycle is like 70 minutes with high temp
 
John---Like you, I'm not interested in a dishwasher with a manual-clean filter. However, I do like a very quiet dishwasher, as I'm usually working in the kitchen for hours at a time washing successive loads, so I get tired of hearing it. The LG was the quietest machine I could find that still had food grinder/self-cleaning filter (45 db). It's so quiet, I'll occasionally forget it's running and open the door to put something inside.

I don't miss the (relatively) louder operating sounds of my former dishwashers, a Maytag and a Frigidaire. Were I a person who loaded and started the dishwasher, then left the kitchen, the noise level probably wouldn't be as important to me.
 
Long Whirlpool

Wasn't there a Whirlpool with a soak option that would make the cycle over four hours?

Malcolm
 
forget it I don't want a dishwasher that takes over two hours to do a load either.TIME is more valueable to me than the electricty or water.I seriously question something like a dishwasher or clothes washer running for that long is REALLY saving energy.Does the machine have a water pump that is as weak as a yard sprinkler-hence the long runtimes?
 
"Long" is a subjective, and interpretive word...

...which is why a lot of manufacturers on this side of the pond now at least offer you either a standard, eco-friendly cycle which will take 1h45-2h45 (depending which cycle you've selected), or with an option button a quicker, slightly less eco-friendly cycle delivering results in anything from 0h50-1h30.

 

The Turbo option on my dishwasher will use "up to 0.3kWh" more according to the programme table in the manual, however still delivers great results in a short cycle.

 

If I put the dishwasher on overnight, I don't bother and let it do it's thing overnight - it's all going to be done in the morning.  However if it's on during the day or evening I will put it on Turbo - by the time I've had a cup of tea and watched Coronation Street and EastEnders of an evening the dishwasher is done...

 

Quietness is major importance to me when it came to choosing dishwashers - ours is rated 44dB, and you only hear a bare trickle, which is all you want in a flat like ours where the kitchen is open plan to the living space.

 

Jon
 
Yep, my dishwasher is one with 3 hr wash, and 4 hour soak...and must have rinse aid for it to work properly. A pain at busy times. [this post was last edited: 7/5/2011-10:43]
 
Something manufacturers don't seem to take into consideration is the water cooling in the pipes during these long cycles. I first noticed this insanity in the KDSS 21 and 22 I had. Both filled, then stopped, before circulating any water, to heat the water to spray on cold dishes. While the first wash was happening, the water was cooling in the pipes before the next fill. After the first wash drained, the load was not that warm because the heat from the 140F water was pulled out of it by the room temperature tank and dishes. The next fill was not all that hot because the water had been sitting and cooling in the pipes for some time. This must be terrible in places where the pipes run through the cement slab so that the water cools as soon as it is shut off. All of the delays while the machine is slowly heating water or taking long enough to wash each piece in the load individually means that water is sitting in the pipes cooling. If there is a temperature sensor, it means that you are going to be paying to heat water electrically even if you have a gas water heater and since most, if not all, domestic dishwashers operate on 115 volts, the water heating is very slow. Of course, they are trying to move us away from washing dishes in hot water so it will soon be a moot point.

I remember a Bradford portable dishwasher on display near the cash registers at our Grants. The lid had a big poster standing up touting "3 STAGE WASHING" so I started reading. I thought it might have to do with multiple wash arms or something. No. Apparently, the machine did not have a detergent dispenser so it filled and started washing. The first stage was at some low temperature range where heat sensitive proteins were washed off the dishes. As the heating element kept heating the water, the second stage started at maybe 120-125F and this was where starches were washed off dishes after sitting there patiently and holding their tickets while the proteins were being wisked away. The third stage was around 140F where grease was washed away. Now this had to take a while. I remember the Westinghouse roll outs with the guaranteed 140F wash with timer delay during heating and the cycle could easily take 90 minutes back in the 1950s. I guess washing that long and getting the wash water that hot, they had to clean things. I think it was a late 50s Consumers Research report on dishwashers where they measured the temperature of the water draining out after each phase of the cycle and the water was amazingly low, like 120F or less after the wash in most of the machines. The dishes were hot by the end of the dry cycle, but they were not washed at anywhere near 140F.
 
Good point Tom

I have a Frigidaire Gallery tall tub (so shoot me lol) that washes really well since I ran a seperate PVC water line direct from the water heater. The water doesn't cool off as fast with the PVC. It seemed to me that every fill cycle only emptied the standing water from the pipe, not drawing it from the tank.
I did this and in addition, I later upgraded the lower wash arm to the three-way one, and the top sprayer to the small wash arm style.
 
Yes, the water definitely cools in the pipes between water changes on new dishwashers with long cycles. However, remember that many of these machines fill with only a tad over a gallon of water. It heats very quickly. I believe that's true of machines that do alternate rack washing (like my LG and the Frigidaire I had around 2005), at any rate.

The LG heats water very quickly. Choosing the 160 degree final rinse option adds under 10 minutes to the cycle. My previous dishwasher, a TOL Maytag, circa 2007, didn't alternate washing between racks, so there was much more water in the machine to heat. Choosing the Sani Rinse option added about 20 minutes to a cycle.
 
My water runs through pipeis located in the concrete foundation so it cools off fairly quickly, even in the summer. So the Kenmore Elite TT does run a minimum of an hour and 48 minutes, heated dry, on the lightest soil sensing programme.
 
crappy new machines

I agree with John.

Under no circumstance would I throw money away on some of these
inferior new machines. When entertaining, I often do 2 or 3 loads in one evening to get all the dishes and pots and pans done. I use a GE GSD2800 as the daily driver. Without the dry cycle it's about 45 minutes and most of the time things are spotless with no pre-rinsing. As far as the noise, It's not that loud, it doesn't interfere with conversation in the kitchen and I'm actually kind of proud of having a dishwasher and want people to hear it running.
 
Let's watch the sweeping generalizations: Not all new dishwashers are "crappy". My LG is by far the best dishwasher I've ever owned. It cleans pots/pans better than any of my previous dishwashers (mid '70s' Kenmore, mid-80's KitchenAid, late 80's Whirlpool, late 80's GE, 90's KitchenAid, early 00 KitchenAid, mid00 Frigidaire, mid 00 Maytag).

The loading flexibility is amazing, and the ultra tall tub allows me to wash tall pots that wouldn't fit in the aforementioned machines.

Yes, the cycle time is longer than vintage machines, but I wash many loads in succession and haven't had problems adjusting to a cycle that's longer than 60 minutes.

It is super-quiet, and is very water and energy efficient. It has a steam feature and 160 degree final rinse options. I wouldn't trade it for any other dishwasher, vintage or new.

It is not a crappy dishwasher.
 
crappy new dishwashers

No one said ALL new dishwashers are "crappy". You will not see the word "all" or any sweeping generalizations in my post if you go back and re-read.

I am speaking of the ones that are "crappy" I never once said all were.

What composes a crappy dishwasher(in my opinion).

One that takes 3 hours to do a load that can be done in 45 minutes by a competent machine.

One that cannot dispose of food wastes and requires pre-rinsing or extensive scraping. In my opinion any machine that uses a non-self cleaning filter is an inferior machine. If dishes are not rinsed or meticulously scraped then food wastes collect in the filter and every drop of wash and rinse water is being filtered through garbage.

If someone wants to pay $1000+ for a machine that washes nnd rinses your dishes in garbage water can go ahead and do it.

Any machine that cannot dispose of normal solid food waste residue is not a dishwasher but just a machine that splashes water on dishes.
 
HEATING WATER IN NEW DWs

Yes there is about 1/2 as much water to heat but the heater elements have been reduced in wattage in most cases to 400 or 500 hundred watts at best. There is just no reason to have a DW running more than an hour. Having a hot machine in the kitchen that long only increases your air-conditioning costs and I am sure that is not taken into account in the energy stickers.

 

Eugene it is always good to hear that people are enjoying thier appliances and getting good use out of them. This is what my whole professional life has been devoted to and based on your recommendation I will take a second look at LG DWs. Both LG and Samung major appliances got off to such a bad start in this country, much like the first Hyundai automobiles did, but I always figured that they might get better in time. I see the LG DWs on the scrap pile almost every week and it is basically a copy of the WP KA tall tub machines. I will have to pick up a few of them some time and take them back to the shop and see what makes them tick, but I am sure that I would never put one in my kitchen. I have already had a TOL KA TT machine and a TL GE TT DW and just bending down the extra 2" to load the lower rack was enough to kill the design for me.

 

There is just no reason what so ever that dishwashers need to take so long. It could actually use less energy and water to put a decent sized pump in and a 240 volt heater and get the job done in less than 30 minutes. Commercial machines have been doing this for years and they kill far more germs in the process. I feel that overall most new appliances have improved but some where along the way dishwashers have evolved in the wrong direction.
 
John-- A caveat about LG dishwashers: Their frequency of repair rate is very high according to Consumer Reports. They are the least reliable of all the brands for which they have enough repair data from their readership. Their current TOL steam model (pretty much the same model I have) scores an 80 (only one Bosch model scored higher, at 81), so they do their job well.

The dishwasher in my house gets very heavy use day in and day out. The LG is almost three years old and so far, no problems; but at Consumer Reports, 23% of the people who responded to the questionnaire and have LG dishwashers, have had to have them repaired. That statistic does not exactly inspire confidence.

LG washing machines used to have a poor reliability record, but they have recently improved to where they are now listed as the most reliable. Hopefully LG will be able to make similar strides with their dishwashers.

The least repair-prone dishwasher brand on CR's list? Whirlpool, at only 8% needing repairs.
 
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