Can a KitchenAid (KDI16) be saved? Anyone?

[neptunebob]

Today I received a call from my sister who has a KDI16 KitchenAid dishwasher from 1968 (we even have the manuals, if anyone is interested in them too). Even though it is still washing for 42 years the machine now has a leak. I went over and looked over all the tubing and it is intact. I was actually hoping it was just a hose but no, the leak seems to be from a pump seal? It is leaking a spray from the motor fan and water coming from inbetween the motor and the tub. I don't know how to repair this problem. So I ask the following:

1. Would anyone like this dishwasher? I might be able to keep it some time. If you do, its free!

2. Is it possible this dishwasher can still be repaired? I know if she calls Sears they will tell her to replace it. Would an independent repair person know how? How do you all find independent repairmen (besides the Yellow Pages) Are there still parts out there?

3. I might give it to a Habitat for Humanity store, but again, would they want an appliance that leaks? If anyone here wants parts, I might be able to part it out too.

4. She wants to shop for a new dishwasher this weekend. I told her only Miele is equal to her KA but she wants to get a new KitchenAid. What are the current models like? I know it is not as heavy duty as this one.

5. I talked to her about locating the KA in the basement where a leak won't matter and using it for extra dishes but she does not like the idea. If that were possible, would it be safe to run with a leak, until it finally dies?

Also, she may replace a GE over and under range from 1979 because it does not self clean anymore. Anyone interested?

 

[qsd-dan]

Is it possible this dishwasher can still be repaired?

Yep! I'm willing to bet the leak is from the motor shaft seal. It's common for machines that have seen hard use, or have sat unused for long periods of time (rubber seals dry out and crack).

You have 2 choices for the seal and impeller kit. A genuine Hobart kit (I believe the 00-435102 seal and impeller kit works for 16 series machine....stevet will slap me if I'm wrong) or a Whirlpool kit. The Hobart kit is the better of the 2 kits, but it doesn't come with installation instructions. The Whirlpool seal kit comes with instructions, but RCD had trouble with the new WP shaft seal, sealing, when he installed it by following the WP instructions for my KDS-19. He tore back into the motor and re-installed the kit in the way that made logical sense to him (gotta love being experienced) and it has been leak free ever since.

If that were possible, would it be safe to run with a leak, until it finally dies?

It should be ok to run the machine with a leak, but it will QUICKLY tear up the ball bearings in the motor. I'd let it die with a little more dignity, myself (possibly part it out?). But that's just me.

 

[rollermatic]

i know parts are still available at hobart

because i recently bought a few pump seals from the local cinti office. they will fit the 15-17 pumps because i have used them on all 3 models.

i would love to have it but i have (3) 16 models already and no more room at all!!!

hopefully someone will save it!

i do have the instruction sheet for installing that seal if anyone is ever interested, just e mail me.

 

[neptunebob]

Do you happen to have the part number for the Whirlpool kit? It might be possible to get that from Sears Parts Direct.

 

[neptunebob]

Oh, just tried Sears parts direct - they only go back to 21 series machines. By the way, what is the current KitchenAid number? They must be up to 26-27 by now.

 

[qsd-dan]

I did some digging in the archives and found that the Hobart part# I listed for the seal and impeller kit is in reference to 18/19/20 series machines only, so ignore my post.

 

[combo52]

KDI-16 SEAL

Call Larry @ Modern Parts in Ohio 216-661-6966. Any Independent repair thats been around for more than 20 years will know how to work on this, but be sure to ask them and tell tell them you have a KD16 with a shaft seal leak and see if they are interested in working on it. On a new machine a WP OR KA is far better than a Meile but get one with a disposer rather than a filter.

 

[stevet]

here is your part number for KD 15-16 and 17 models

The Hobart part number for the shaft seal(which includes the drain impeller) is 117011 and it lists for $30.70 My office has 5 in stock and many other offices stock it as well and the main distribution center has well over 100 in stock so you can order as many as you want and be assured that they will be available. You can purchase it at you local Hobart office. Just give them that part number and how many you want. Don't get in to any discussion with them about it going in to a Kitchenaid Dishwasher. They may not even know it was part of Hobart at one time!

If you decide to tackle it on your own, I will send you the instructions for the install. It requires shimming the impellers so that you maintian a specific clearance between the pump impeller and the wash arm support.
There was(and I still have one) a "touch/clear" gauge that makes it as easy as pie to get the correct spacing with the motor in or out of the dishwasher.

Try not to run it with the leak as you WILL probably ruin the motor bearings on it and trying to remove the fan from the shaft may result in ruining that as well and that is not available anywhere! If you mess up big time, you will probably have to go with a whole new motor from WP if still available or one from Hobart which costs maybe 2x or more than WP.

Holler at me if you have any questions

 

[neptunebob]

Thanks everyone so far...

We are not going to run it anymore and try to save the motor. Steve T I may be in touch with you. My brother also says we can store the KitchenAid at his house so I will do all I can to save it. Now just have to tell my brother in law not to have sears come and take it away. Oh, but there are 3 layers of flooring making about an inch difference, making it almost impossible to get the old machine out (or a new one in). Oh, well, she wants new flooring anyway. I am doing everything I can to keep it out of the landfill.

My brother Sam says throwing this appliance away is like throwing away a Gibson Les Paul electric guitar. Agree?

 

[rp2813]

I don't know from guitars but it sounds like Sam has the right idea.

If you like it, save it!

 

[stevet]

Floored for sure!

I won't ask you or anyone else here or in this world, why they simply floor right up to a dishwasher and not under it as well?

You can try to loosen it by disconnecting the brackets that hold it to the counter and then try turning the leveling legs all the way up in to the frame. You may get just enough clearance to slide it out. Or enough to get the front out by tilting it back when the back feet are up too. Then you may be able to thread the front feet totally out and then work the back ones out too.
Worst case, if you can. Hacksaw them out and then install new ones if you need to. Once you gt the machine out, you can always reinstall it without legs and just shim the frame up to the required height and fore-go the new floor!

 

[rollermatic]

in see that the seal kit

(1021760 part no.) is in stock at repair clinic .com

it is 48.00 bucks basically. they are usually pretty good at having older parts, i have used them many times. just punch in kds-16 and it will be there!

 

[neptunebob]

Thanks Rollermatic, I will go and take a look

Stevet: I think it is customary for the appliances like a built in dishwasher to be on the plywood or wood flooring with 1 layer of subflooring and then flooring. This way the flooring can be replaced without having to disturb the cabinets. The screw legs have enough clearance for 1 layer but not enough for the 3 layers they have. Turns out my brother in law thought it was cheaper to just have flooring laid over the existing flooring, thinking nothing would ever happen to the dishwasher (it turns out no one in that side of the family is a "plan ahead" person). The only way I can think of to get the appliance out is to lift up the countertop and since it had to custom made to their layout, it was expensive I am don't really want to take the risk of cracking it. We might get the installer to take it out, put a new one in, and then save the KD 16. Thanks for all the help I will let you know and see if I can get some pictures.

 

[rp2813]

I have just the opposite issue at my house. My dad built new cabinets and counters about an inch higher than is standard. He did that in order to create a garage for a 1970-ish Wards Signature (aka Flimsidaire) BOL portable top-loading dishwasher adjacent to the sink. When that machine was replaced in the mid 70's by a built-in D&M Kenmore, and again later with a '90 Maytag JetClean, 2x4 skids were required so that there wouldn't be a big gap between the the machine and the counter top. Skids will be required until that whole section gets blown up in an eventual remodel. Currently my always entertaining 1985 Thermador THD3600 steam model is resting on them.

For the first half of the 1970's, we had a battle going between two Wards Signature machines. With the kitchen on one side of the family room and laundry area on the other, watching TV was an exercise in futility with either the clothes washer or dishwasher doing its best to drown out the TV audio. As it happened, both machines got replaced by Kenmores, which I facilitated, and even with both of them running simultaneously, TV viewing was no longer disrupted. So much more civilized than the Wards junk.

 

[stevet]

cut and paste!

Bob, would you be able to get the unit out by cutting the legs off and then backing the remaining legs out from the top side of the frame? I think I suggested that already but wanted to remind you.
This happened to an uncle of mine when my aunt wanted to get rid of a builder's model GE dishwasher and they had tiled the floor up to the machine. He wound up cutting the counter from backsplash to front just to get the machine out.He also had the same problem when he wound up redoing the kitchen and had to dig the lower cabinets out of the tiling job too. It wound up costing them additional money to remove all the tiling and replacing it with new since the ceramic pattern was no longer available. He DID tile from wall to wall prior to setting the new cabinets in place including under the dishwasher.

Your best bet may be to loosen the screws holding the counter to the base cabinets and maybe lifting it enough to get the machine out.

Also, if there is no clearance to get the 16 out, then you may not be able even install something new either. If the seal is leaking and the machine won't come out, you will have to do it all from the tank side which is fine. The motor does not have to be removed to do that. Since you don't have the room to pull the machine out, I doubt you would even be able to drop the motor and pull it out from the front either. Also, you do not risk ruining the gaskets either.

If you find that you have to do all this work to get the machine out, I would cave and get it out and install a new machine in its place and relegate the 16 to the garage or basement after the seal is fixed. You can always use it as a spare to take care of the overflow dishes or use it to clean the pots and pans.
And one last thing..Why would you consider buying a seal assembly for 48 dollars when you can get it for less from Hobart? Just was wondering if they had something more to offer!

BTW, if you do tackle this deal on your own, I will gladly lend you the "touch/Clear" gauge. I used it only once in the past 6 years on a Hobart WM machine that was nearly 40 years old! Haven't used it since!

 

[retropia]

When we did the kitchen remodel in 1998, we had the cabinets installed directly on the plywood subfloor, but had the finish flooring (laminate) installed underneath the refrigerator, dishwasher, and slide-in range.

It's made it so much easier to move the refrigerator in and out for cleaning underneath, and made it easy getting the old dishwasher out and the new one in.

 

[neptunebob]

So far it looks like I will be getting the 16 at the house where I live. My BIL has a Honda element and he has agreed to drive the dishwasher there if I help him lift it in and out. He wants it out by this coming Wednesday. He and my sister just bought a new range (Whirlpool) and dishwasher (Maytag, is it same as WP now?) because the range and DW are next to each other and they have been told that if the range comes out the DW can too. Someone in the neighborhood wants the range and they are getting it. I took pictures and will soon post them and let you all know of this "soap opera"

Steve, Sam found the seal from an appliance web site, it is just that I am not familiar with a "Hobart office' but I will look into it. Do I just tell them the number and pay and I can get the parts?

It is taking a lot of family negotiation to save the appliances we like doesn't it?

 

[rollermatic]

good luck with that kd-16

you know the 15-17 series are my favorite kitchenaids. i have a couple 15's 3-16 models and a bunch of 17's.

that seal is pretty easy to replace. you can still get a motor too if you ever need it, i just bought one last year from a local appliance repair place here in cincinnati. put it on one of my 17's.

e bay has the top of the pump housing (the wash arm support) for about 15 bucks apeice. i have bought about 4 of these from this guy. i saw them the other day still listed. might grab a couple more.

with a little care and tune up you can keep that kitchenaid running for another 20 years! if you have any questions just e mail me!

good luck and enjoy it!

pete

 

[stevet]

Hobart Office

Here is the link to all the offices that service the state of PA.
just call the local office closest to you and ask if they have the part. If they don't, there are about 150 of the seals in stock in the Piqua distribution center. They can order you however many you want.
Just give them the part number and you will be set.
Do you want me to email you the pages from the service manual?
It would help I am sure to have them
Steve

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