Dishwasher film?

[polkanut]

I've posted the info for the brand of dw detergent that I use before. It is still loaded with phosphates, and it has never disappointed me yet in the 11.5 yrs we've been using it. The brand I use is Hytron, made by Stearns Packaging Corp-Madison, WI. It reminds me a great deal of what Electrasol used to be.

Error 404 - Stearns Packaging Corporation

Dispenser-Free Control Systems

www.stearnspkg.com

 

[tlee618]

It is really scary to think what dishwashers are going to look like inside when more and more are forced to use products without phosphates! Well at least one good thing is that those who service dishwashers are going to be getting a lot of calls very soon. LOL

 

[rp2813]

I don't think there's any doubt now that lack of phosphates is the issue, not lack of lithium.

A couple of additional glasses and my coffee carafe came out fine after running the whole load again with some of the old liquid Finish I had.

I remember back in the 70's they made a big deal out of removing phosphates from laundry detergent. It was one of the first big ecological victories and was as big a deal as removing cyclamates from diet soda. I wonder why there was never a push back then to remove phosphates from dishwasher detergent as well.

I'm going to look into where I can buy Hytron, but it will be easier to find Cascade right away.

Where does one by phosphate additives like TSP or whatever?

And I think it might be time to mount a campaign of letter writing to the manufacturers. This elimination of phosphates wasn't a government mandated thing was it?

 

[mrcleanjeans]

You don't want TSP, it actually isn't TSP. You want STTP,(sodium tripolyphosphate)from The Chemistry Store. Cheers!

 

[whirlcool]

For days where our dishes aren't all that dirty, we are trying Palmolive Lavender DW detergent liquid. It is phosphate free. It does a decent job and that's about it. If anything has struck on food, it doesn't work well. But we don't have a filming problem. It's cheap, $2.38 for a large size jug.

For the dirty, stuck on food we were using Finish power ball tabs in the little paper wrappers. They don't really work well. But the Finish in the clear, disolvable wrappers works well. Go figure.

So we have been stocking up on Cascade with phosphates. We use this for really dirty dishes. We now have about a years supply. [this post was last edited: 5/7/2010-15:09]

 

[rp2813]

The detergent dispenser on the Thermador is seriously temperamental. I doubt any packets or tablets would work in it. Fill the main wash cup even slightly more than is called for (which is still well below the lip of the cup) and it won't open.

I think I have seen Hytron out there somewhere, unless I'm remembering a post here that mentioned it sometime in the past.

Thanks for the clarification on the STTP/STPP stuff.

 

[polkanut]

There are various janitorial sites that sell it, just Google it. It has a very strong chlorine odor also, almost an almond scent.

 

[rp2813]

Back On Track

Well guys, it was indeed a phosphate issue. I bought some Cascade powder with phosphates and crammed the machine full with a BobLoad last night. Everything came out clean, sparkling and perfectly dry, just like the loads the TT had been processing up until the phosphate-free Finish landed in it.

I'm thinking about writing a letter to the Finish people now. I am definitely finished with Them.

 

[jmirawm]

how much

Stpp should one add to the dishwasher ?

 

[polkanut]

Better living through chemistry! Glad you nailed down the problem Ralph.

 

[appnut]

Whew, glad it's been resolved!!!

 

[rp2813]

And You Know Bob . . .

Thermador/WK-U really wanted to make it difficult to load the bottom rack in anything but an orderly fashion. I'm getting better at outsmarting them. I should have snapped a picture but there will be many more opportunities now! The top rack is very crammable, complete with the optional extra tier on either side. It's the bottom rack that presents the challenge.

I'm using the "Short" cycle almost exclusively now. Dishes are done in about an hour, glassware sparkles and every last cup bottom is dry. I am so back in love with this machine!

 

[qsd-dan]

Nice to hear you're back in Thermadore action!

I have had very good luck using Cascade with Dawn. Excellent results in the reverse rack Maytag as well as the KDS-19. Claims to have no phosphates, but by its performance, you'd swear it was loaded with them. Give it a try when all of the phosphate soap is off the market......coming soon.

 

[srswirl]

Eating Crow...so far

Well...since phosphates are on the way out regardless of whether we like it or not (YAY! for the Chemistry Store!) I decided to go on a mini crusade to see if there really was such a thing as a dishwasher detergent without phosphates that could actually clean dishes. I've scoured the web looking for reviews, experiences, testimonials, the science of dishwashing, etc., etc. Mind you...I already made up my mind that no such thing really existed.

So...I come across a "blog" talking about this very subject...and it appeared to me to be more about hawking the product than anything. Basically, someone involved with the company was stating that their product was every bit as good as Cascade Complete in terms of cleaning...but that they were so small there was no way to compete...and no money for massive ad campaigns. They wanted people to try their product and they guaranteed excellent results. They would completely stand by their product if people would only try it. It is completely environmentally friendly, and contains no phosphates, and no chlorine. Don't know why this one suckered me in (I think because they seemed to be sincerely pleading their case)...but I decided to give it a try and thought I would write them a nice diatribe when it didn't work...which it surely wasn't going to. $12 and change for a 62 load box...plus shipping since I had to order it online.

I figured I was really going to put their claims to the test. So...I made Ziti. Made sure I got some noodles stuck to the pot and really boiled them good to get some nearly burnt-on starch. Then...used a glass dish to bake the Ziti...with nothing non-stick. Not only was some of the Ziti really stuck to the glass dish afterwords, I let it dry overnight! HA! Had a pan with some burnt-on pizza and one with some potato starch stuck to the bottom after boiling potatos. Plus...and the normal every day stuff we all face...stuck on eggs, dried stuff, etc.

Well...here's where I eat crow. EVERYTHING came sparkling clean in every load I washed. Even the pot with potato starch was crystal clean...and I have to admit that Cascade always left a "cloudy" residue where potato starch is involved after the first wash. Not this phosphate and chlorine free stuff. It washed everything perfectly spotless...including a frying pan with stuck on hamburger which I normally would have deglazed...but let just let it sit on the heat for my test so it would be nice and stuck on. I have to say, I simply cannot believe this detergent. I am dumbstruck. These people have something. However, I can see why they're not getting anywhere.

So...what's the product? It's called AlmaWin. Very hard to find. One of the reasons they're not getting anywhere is because you can't buy it directly from their site. And...I only found one of their links to buy that actually had the product...and this was an eBay store. Yikes! If you want to sell your product, you need to be sure the people you claim are selling it actually ARE selling it. If they had some better marketing, I don't really think they'd need a million dollar ad campaign to compete with the likes of P&G. If they could get enough people like me to just try the product, it would sell itself by old fashioned word of mouth.

If you're one of those people like I am who just feel there is no substitute for phosphates in dishwasher detergent, you have to try this product. You will be amazed at what it can do. It's a shame the product will probably not survive. One of those great products that comes along and can never get enough market share...then just disappears...even though the product is fantastic. I'm impressed with it...and I still cannot believe it actually works. Oh...and one other thing, all my glassware was just as spotless as with Cascade! Now that really surprised me, too, as I was definitely expecting spots on glassware. Not a single spot when held up to the sunlight.

So...will I give up phosphates for my dishes...for AlmaWin I might. For anything else I've come across so far, no! We'll see how long AlmaWin will be around.

 

[polkanut]

The posting on Ebay says the product is made in Germany. Panthera, is this item readily found in stores in Germany, or mail order only?

 

[andrewinorlando]

Everyone....this product is available on www.brightgreenideas.com and is $4 cheaper per box, along with far, far cheaper shipping via FedEx. I got two boxed of it with 3 day FedEx shipping for $28. Far less than the eBay store wants at $48 for two boxes. They also have other AlmaWin products here, including the laundry detergent....PASS THE WORD AROUND!!

 

[srswirl]

Thank you!

Thank you, Andrew! Have you used it previously? What is your experience with it?

 

[andrewinorlando]

Actually, I have heard of it before, with similar accolades to what you expressed! So I just went online, searched, and ordered two boxes of it. I have bought from Bright Green Ideas before, and they're a reputable seller.

For the stuff I put in my dishwasher, it's worth a try! So far, only the Cascade Complete or Cascade with Dawn packs have provided the best results, but I like the idea that the AlmaWin can take care of heavy starch soils, which Cascade just doesn't do. Always leaves stains on stainless pots, and cleans other pots only marginally well. Glasses also seem to be hit or miss sometimes. I really like the idea that AlmaWin is supposed to work well with the lower water temps. Usually, I just select the hi temp option on all cycles, and that seems to provide the best results with Cascade.

 

[rp2813]

Alma sounds like a Winner to me, but they do definitely have work at getting it onto supermarket shelves. If I were them, I'd be talking to Trader Joe's and other "progressive" type retailers. This stuff is right up their alley.

I'm still looking around for Hytron locally but so far have not found it at any of the restaurant or industrial supply stores I've checked.

For the time being, I'll just keep using the "Short" wash cycle and filling only one of the detergent cups in order to make my powdered Cascade + Dawn with phosphates last longer. I was at the store last week and spied a redesigned box of Cascade + Dawn that proudly proclaimed on the front that it's phosphate-free. Time to snap up the phosphated stuff when we find it on the shelves, everybody. Since they changed the packaging, a box of the good stuff will be easy to identify.

 

[mysteryclock]

SRSwirl,

How's your water there? My second biggest issue (after basic cleaning) is hard water buildup on everything, which is especially visible on glasses and cutlery. I was having to add Lemishine to every load when I was using Cascade All-in-One Gelpacs but when I switched over to Finish Quantum Powerball I was able to ditch that. Now that the P-free versions are starting to get onto the shelves, I'm concerned again.