Dishwasher film?

[srswirl]

Moderately Hard Water

Mysteryclock:

We have moderately hard water in my community here in South Florida...about 3.5 to 4.0 grains of hardness. I've never had any buildup on dishes, but soap scum becomes like an iron coating on my shower tiles. Even products like CLR that claim to dissolve hard water buildup from calcium and iron don't really touch it. I found that it will come off with fine steel wool if you let the tiles dry completely. Then, I can get back down to the actual tile surface (kinda like sanding, LOL!). Since South Florida is basically an ancient dead reef, our water is practically made up of calcium, iron, and sulfur. I'm on a well for my sprinkler system...and all I can say is I am certainly very thankful I do not have to use the water that comes right from the ground! That stuff is like some kind of alien chemical cocktail! LOL!

The AlmaWin claims to have excellent water softening properties.

 

[polkanut]

Ralph,

Email me privately using the email address in my profile. Maybe we can get you hooked up somehow. Hytron rules in our house. The only drawback about it is how it discolors aluminum items.

 

[Unimatic1140]

With the coming loss of phosphated dishwasher detergent, Fred and I cleared out the last of it at Target yesterday, this should last us about a year (hopefully).

 

[supersuds]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with a stash.

Mine would last more than a year, though I may end up giving some to friends and family.

 

[tlee618]

Wow Robert, looks like you and Fred are all set. I have looked down here at the place I can with no luck. It all seems to be gone. Walmart had an area in the dishwasher detergent section that was marked clearance but it was empty. Have a feeling they moved all the old out. I am going to have to find a place that sells phosphates and mix my own!

 

[supersuds]

Have you tried looking in some of the less-popular drugstores? They seem to turn over their stock slowly. I've seen some phosphate Cascade in a Rite Aid and CVS.

 

[rp2813]

I just saw some phosphated Cascade at Walgreens yesterday. That's where I got my current box, and it was even on sale to add to the satisfaction. It's not on sale anymore but think I better go back and stock up. I didn't realize that phosphates were going to go poof and disappear off the shelves completely.

Tim, I'll e-mail you if my efforts to find Hytron locally fail.

Thanks,

Ralph

 

[spiralator60]

Questions for SRSwirl

Michael,

Your test sounds interesting, and I think that I want to give the product a try. How much of the AlmaWin did you use in testing it - did you use one dispenser cup or two?

Also, how would you describe the fragrance of the product? Is is (over)perfumed?

 

[jmirawm]

film

I was having film issues also - so went to the chemical store online and bought some STPP. What is the recommended dosage in a dishwasher? I have also bought some Alma Win to try out.

 

[srswirl]

How Much?

Darryl:

There is a scoop that comes in the box. It states one level scoop for hard water...so that is exactly what I used...no more. I put the majority of the scoop (at least 3/4) in the main detergent cup...and the rest in the pre-wash cup. By the way...I don't "believe" in using anything but HOT water to wash dishes...just like I wash clothes. I always select the Hi-Temp Wash and the Sani-Rinse on my Kitchen-Aid (Whirlpool) just like I use 150 degree F water to wash most of my clothes in my Bosch washer (and some get 170 degrees F). I will never wash anything in cold water...I don't care if they come out with something that washes with ice cubes.

 

[srswirl]

Oh...and the fragrance...

Forgot to answer your second question Darryl. I'm not entirely sure how to describe the fragrance...it is a bit "citrus-y"...and reminds me of something from my childhood...but I can't place my finger on it...

Kinda like a very mild Spic-and-Span and "citrus-y" is the best thing I can come up with. The product does not leave a fragrance at all (at least as far as I can detect) after the diswasher is done. Not like Cascade Orange or Lemon...where you can smell it.

 

[retropia]

Recommended dosage for STPP

Most traditional phosphated dishwasher detergents have somewhere between 6 and 8 percent phosphates. What I would do is first determine the percentage of phosphates in the STPP and then mix with your dishwasher detergent accordingly to make it average 6 to 8 percent phosphates.

For example, if your STPP is 100 percent phosphates, to get 1 Tablespoon of dishwasher detergent with approx. 8 percent phosphates, you'd use 2-3/4 teaspoons non-phosphated dishwasher detergent and 1/4 teaspoon STPP.

In that scenario, that would make your recipe contain 1/12 phosphates, which would be 8.3 percent.

 

[westyslantfront]

I was at the supermarket today. On the Finish box, I cannot see the contents shown. On the Cascade box, it does say that it has phosphates at 6.4% but nothing about chlorine.
I have been using Finish, adding my own phosphates, and also spraying in Chloralex bathroom cleaner with bleach. Has anyone checked Hytron mades by the Stearns Company?

Ross

 

[supersuds]

Finish boxes now say, in tiny print on the back panel, that they're phosphate free. It's very hard to pick up. If the side panel doesn't say anything about phosphate, it's the new formulation.

With Cascade, they seem to say clearly on the front when it's non-phosphate; and most of the packaging is a lighter green than before, although this is not true of the "Complete" line.

 

[polkanut]

I tried 1/4 cup 20 Mule Team Borax along with some Melaleuca "Diamond Brite" dw detergent last night, and no film whatsoever. I had a very greasy electric frypan from breakfast, along with other various items from the last several days, and I was very impressed by the results. Might be worth trying with Hytron when I have a greasy load.

 

[westyslantfront]

For those of you who wish to purchase sodium tri polyphosphate, here is a link to the chemistrystore.com.

Ross

http://www.fortune3.com/chemstore/Chemicals_S_Z-Sodium_Tripolyphosphate.html

 

[sudsmaster]

Basic Chemistry, Again

Please be mindful that the 8% figure on the box of a phosphated dishwasher detergent refers only to the PHOSPHORUS content, which is different from the PHOSPHATE content.

I won't go into the atomic weights and molecular structures here, but 8% PHOSPHORUS content is equivalent to about 33% PHOSPHATE content when one is adding STPP as the complex phosphate source.

So, for a target of 8% phosphorus content, one should add 1 tsp of STPP to 2 tsp of non-phosphated dishwasher detergent.

However, if 1/4 tsp works for you, so much the better.

 

[tolivac]

Geez-they MINE phosphates in my area!Too get to one of the transmitter sites-you go by a LARGE phosphate mining pit.PCS phosphate I beleive is the company.

 

[jerrod6]

I live in a state that has banned phosphates in DW detergents starting June 2010 so I have been stocking up for a few months. Last month I tried Casecade Complete All-in-1 liquid non phosphate. It seems to work fine but leaves a scent in the DW that I don't like. After reading about Finish in this thread I bought 3-in-1 tabs non phosphate and used them yesterday. It worked fine in the sensor cycle but this one adjusts according to soil level. I am going to try them Friday in a cycle that uses lower temperatures and see what happens.

I wonder if the problem is made worse if you have hard water?

 

[rp2813]

I am sure hard water is a factor. My sister lives in the part of L.A. with the hardest water due to an old DWP facility serving her area. She has had nothing but trouble with filming issues and even 86'd her KDS 18 because she thought it was the machine's fault. I'm still not over THAT. With a new Bosch she started having the same problem. Lemishine fixed it, but I have warned her about the disappearance of phosphates and to adjust her practices accordingly.