Gas Stoves and Indoor Pollution

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Lol! I’ll keep my gas range. That being said, mine is clean and flames are always normal because I don’t let things boil over into the orifices to create a dirty flame. If they want to say houses are too tight to use a gas range, then the HVAC professional didn’t add the proper fresh air to the HVAC system. Most older homes ventilate themselves enough though leaky windows and doors, etc. This is another one of those things where someone else benefits from trying to protect people from themselves.
 
Me too. I will also keep my gas range. I love my low heating bills using natural gas. My stove burns clean. I use my vent when I cook anyway.

Using electric here in the winter for heating could easily cause you to run up a$300-$400 or more dollar electricity bill monthly.

I'm a grown man and I can make my own decisions about what I will use in my own home to cook with.
 
Choosing to have gas appliances in your home is not just about the monthly cost or the obvious dangers they present to your immediate home.

 

Gas explodes.  Not just in your home where just a small pin hole leak can accumulate and cause your home to explode.  Also the pipes leading up to your house where they can rust and leak.  I've seen this several times and had to call for emergency service from the gas company.  Also the large laterals in the street and the big mains that deliver gas to communities.

Then there is all the work that goes into digging the ground to install these dangerous pipelines.

 

Gas cooking appliances can't easily be moved around like a electric toaster oven or cook plate.  

 

Most people already have electric.  Not every body has gas or propane.  Electric will continue to decrease in cost as the networks become more stable with the new Tesla battery back up systems that are already in use.  Plus, if you install your own solar system you can make your own FREE electric.

 

Solar panels don't explode.

 

Spend money on insulating your home.  It's cheap.  You can do it yourself yourself if you want.  

 



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I have a new gas stove and I swear to keep her working cleanly, safely and efficiently... I love cooking with my gas enough that I would never want to see it taken away...

And as for moving, it isn’t something I would frequently do no matter what the fuel type for my stove should be...

I’m sure there are equally dangerous radiation-like things those electric ranges out there could also be polluting air and endangering lives with as well...

— Dave
 
I just go with the flow. Around here gas in residential homes is used primarily for furnace and hot water tanks. Electric for ranges and dryers. An appliance store owner told me electric dryers outsell gas 9 to 1. I just remember years ago my grandmother had a gas stove in her kitchen, and when cooking a big meal which probably involved the oven, her whole kitchen turned into an oven, even with a 5,000 BTU window unit running in the kitchen window, was no match for all those range BTUs, lol
 
In the late 70s, there was an article in the Washington Post about a scientist who worked for the EPA measuring rush hour air pollution. The instruments were in his attache case and on one particular afternoon, he had been measuring pollution along 14th street where heavy traffic used to back up as people exited the District and headed into Virginia over the 14th street Bridge to I-95. After he got his readings, he headed home. When he arrived at his house, he put his attache case down in his kitchen, turned on the gas oven to preheat for pizza and went upstairs to change clothes. While he was upstairs, an alarm began sounding. He came downstairs and discovered the alarm was coming from his case. He opened it and discovered that he had not shut off the air pollution testing device and his small kitchen had filled with combustion by-products to a danger level beyond even the amounts that were in the curbside air of a major commuter artery at rush hour, levels so high that they triggered the device's alarm. He turned on the vent hood and the levels dropped and the air became safe. Gas ranges do pollute, especially in small kitchens without adequate ventilation.

Modern induction ranges offer all of the responsiveness of gas surface burners at much higher efficiencies and far greater speeds. I love asking proponents of gas cooking to hold their hands at the side of a pan over a high gas flame like a pan of water being brought to a boil and without the flame extending beyond the base of the pan. They can't because of the waste heat coming up the side of the pan. It is no problem to hold your hands at the side of a pan on an electric surface unit when the pan is properly matched to the size of the surface unit.

Properly vented gas water heaters, furnaces and clothes dryers which are designed to move their products of combustion outside of the building do not pose a threat to indoor air quality. A gas range should only be operated with a properly vented and operating exhaust fan to be safe for the creatures in the adjoining spaces.
 
Good Article Fred, Thanks For Posting

Gas ranges are much dirtier tan any other gas appliance used in the home and it is the only one that is not required to be vented outside.

 

There is NO such thing as a properly adjusted gas range, when you boil a large pot of water on a gas cook-top if the flame touches the colder kettle it produces a large amount of CO, there is nothing you can do to reduce this.

 

Likewise turning on a gas oven or broiler produces large amounts of CO because the flame is burning against cold metal, this effect does subside somewhat as the metal gets hotter but preheating a gas oven in an average kitchen will quickly get you a 35 PPM reading of CO.

 

Gas dryers are not much of a problem, I can run a gas dryer unvented in the same shop area in my basement unvented for an hour drying a large load of clothing and get no reading on our CO monitor, this is the same monitor that will quickly give a reading of around 35 PPM when a preheat a gas oven to 350F in the same shop space. Gas dryers of corse are usually vented out doors because of all the lint and heat and humidity they produce.

 

The very least that needs to be done about this is to have a requirement that ventilation equipment be installed in kitchens that vents OUTSIDE, These fans should also have sensors that will turn them on automatically when they detect CO and possibility other pollutants.

 

John L.
 
My kitchen is properly vented with a range hood that vents outside so not a problem. Admittedly I would like to try induction cooking but the thought of metal and glass colliding being I am sometimes heavy handed when I cook.

Most electric ranges are glass top so that is a strike against them right there.

Drop a heavy pan on an enameled cooktop you may dent or chip it, but glass? I don't care how impact resistant these cooktops claim to be they will still shatter.
 
Renovation vs. New Install

The article argues against gas stoves/appliances, but these arguments would only be applied (practically) to new installations. The cost of replacing gas with electric would be prohibitive, considering the existing risk of keeping the gas.

In my situation, an old, 125-year-old house equipped with gas, and electrical service not as updated as in a modern house, the stove is gas. In fact, it is a gas-and-gas stove, heating part of the house. I have 4 other direct-vent gas fireplaces throughout the 2-story house. The house is insulated, with Pella windows, so it is not "drafty", but I'm sure that air does circulate from outside.

The stove is vented up the chimney (B-vent), which is located in the center of the house.

What would my options be, if I had wanted to eliminate the health risks of gas?

1. Buy a new gas stove, place it on an exterior wall, with a range hood venting outdoors. Then I would need to replace the heater with another direct-vent fireplace (these cost north of $3,000).

2. Keep the present setup, install a range hood, and run the ductwork across the ceiling to an exterior wall, making the kitchen look like a factory.

3. Ditch the gas stove, and wire for electricity. Even more thousands for rewiring and replacement of heater.

In these possibilities, the cost/benefit does not outweigh my risk. I have lived with gas for 65 years. I'm comfortable with the present situation, but if I were building new, I probably would go all-electric. I have multiple CO detectors.

My only concern is if and when the gas-and-gas stove becomes unrepairable. No plumbers or gas co. employees will touch it.

On the other hand, if I got rid of that stove, I would not need my chimney, and I could install a cupola at the peak of the roof.
 
After a few hundred thousand years of man cooking over fire one would think we have further evolved by now. But we are creatures of habit I suppose.

I can't imagine having a gas stove in a home, especially a modern home that is tight and no longer has the constant ventilation of a standing flu for the heating appliances.

In a restaurant gas makes sense, high constant BTU's for low cost and there is a insane vent hood and fire suppression system. But saying this is ideal for home cooking is like saying since race car drivers use slick tires I'm going to run em on my street car.

Even if it weren't for the indoor pollution and smell, I can't deal with the lack of temperature control. Odd that I've never needed a double boiler on any electric stove.

But like religion, we can never convert the faithful.
 
I’ve Used and Lived with Both Gas and Electric

and given my choice I’ll take electric.  It’s cleaner, safer and easier to control the heat.  

 

When we bought our home over 25 years ago we were moving from a condo that had a gas dryer, gas stove, gas water heater and gas forced air heating.  I was really worried that the cost for utilities was going to go thru the roof.  True, electric heat does cost a little more than gas, but I have asthma and the lack of dust in the air makes the extra cost worth it.  Our baseboard heaters are hydronic and very efficient.  

 

But what I like best about all electric is cooking on an electric stove.  Much cleaner more control and better baking.  On my electric stove I know that I can set the control to the lowest setting, say for cooking rice, and set the timer and will have perfectly steamed rice in 18 mins. With the gas stove in our old home, 9 times out of 10 when the flame was set low enough to steam the rice and not scorch it, the flame would go out and unless I watched it like a hawk I’d come back when the timer went off to find uncooked rice.  This is just one example, though small of how an electric stove performs more dependably.

 

Additionally, every time I used the gas oven in our old home the kitchen filled with CO vapors, because the new gas stoves are generally not vented outside.  I believe this is not healthy.  And the white formica countertops had to be scrubbed weekly to remove the film that covered them from the gas stove.

 

If people want to use gas thats their prerogative, as long as its still allowed in their jurisdiction. But really, one can adjust to anything if necessary, and sometimes can also be pleasantly surprised that the conversion from gas to electric that they dreaded turns out to be something they embrace rather than despise.  

 

Eddie

 

 
 
And health and safety are bargaining chips by government and major industry.

RE: Satisfaction in going from gas to electric. Our neighbor who moved from their house with a gas stove to a new one with a Frigidaire Compact 30 was so satisfied with it and so loved the wide oven that when they built another house, they put all electric Whirlpool builtins in the kitchen with the wide oven so even going from gas to electric with Frigidaire Radiantubes which are not the most responsive cooking units turned out to be a joy. Her neighbor on the other side went from gas to GE builtins when she bought a new house and she had no trouble. I think they communicated about electric cooking and the report was satisfactory. We changed to an electric range before we moved. I don't know about our health, but the silver did not need polishing as much and the kitchen cabinets and ceiling did not need cleaning as often. My brother and I were put to work at the sink polishing silver and I was put up on a chair washing the ceiling and the upper cabinets so I remember those tasks, but I did not have to wash the cabinets but once after we got the electric range; vacuuming the cabinets was all that was needed.[this post was last edited: 5/13/2020-12:03]
 
Sounds to me like some here would force others to use electric if they had that kind of power. Once again if you don't want gas then don't have a home heated by it. I can find reports on the positives of gas.

I've seen these threads before and it just seems there is this almost irrational phobia of natural gas among some folks.

If I could find a place where the electric rates were as cheap as what I'm paying now I would switch and give an electric home a try, I mostly bake with a smaller electric oven so I'm halfway there.
 
I will never give up my gas range, furnace, or fireplace! I've never had any ill effects from any of them, even when our 73 Tappan Range (she was a beauty) in our first house would trip the carbon monoxide detector..(low readings) (it only did it when it was on for long periods of time, like holidays) We have an electric stove in our summer home and it takes forever to heat up.. I couldn't imagine having to deal with that every time I wanted to cook! (I guess I'm just stubborn) and perhaps a bit crazy.. lol
 
I’ve cooked on my niece's and her MIL’s gas stoves and it took over 30 mins to get a 6 qt. pot of water to boil.  

 

On my GE coil top I can get 6 qts. of water to a boil in 10 mins or less.  So I would have to say my experience has been electric is faster than gas.  

 

Seems like a lot of wasted energy using gas, even if it may be slightly less expensive.

 

As I’ve said before, you can adjust and get used to anything with time.

 

Eddie

 

 
 
"If gas was really detrimental to our health wouldn't something have been done long ago ?"

 

Oh gee then, I guess that's that.  No need to worry.  The world is perfect with the exception for those few documented problems on the big 'TV machine'. 

 

NO.

 

That attitude is NOT how a society improves.


"If you guys don't like gas that is fine but done deny or try to sway the people that do."

 

We most certainly WILL try and bring to peoples attention when there is a problem.  Trying to 'hush' people from protecting other innocent humans is a DEF. NO GO!  SHAME !

"We all have our likes and dislikes. We shouldn't go trying to "childproof" the whole world.""

 

Ah, YES, we SH|OULD !  Who wouldn't appreciate a better, safer, more efficient society.  Again, that is how the world improves.  It doesn't matter what the entrenched want.  
 
I have a 1960's era Magic chef gas range. I have always been aware of a "combustion" type smell when it is in use. I have grown accustomed to it. However if I go on vacation or something and am not around it for a while, when I come back home I notice it again. It is kind of like "dry air" its hard to describe. It is particularly the oven, not a gas smell, but like breathing really dry air near the stove. It is a 110 year old home with no vent in the kitchen. I have always been a little curious what the carbon monoxide output of the kitchen is. I built storm windows for most of the house, but I never put any on the kitchen windows for this reason. I once saw a video on youtube about carbon monoxide and unvented ranges.
That being said, I still much prefer gas over electric. Personal preference, the reason being that Gas is instantly adjustable heat; electric is a slow fade up or down in heat, and is not instant in any way. My home, it's not even possible to have an electric stove. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Seriously John ?

"Gas dryers are not much of a problem, I can run a gas dryer <span style="text-decoration: underline;">unvented</span> in the same shop area in my basement <span style="text-decoration: underline;">unvented</span> for an hour drying a large load of clothing..."

 

I would expect YOU to know better than that.

 

You should know that gas dryer manufacturers specifically point out in their owner's manuals that the dryers MUST be vented outdoors.

 

That the manufacturers of vinyl dryer ducting specifically state that their product is NOT to be used with gas dryers. 

 

That the makers of indoor dryer vent traps specifically state that their product is NOT to be used with gas dryers because of poisonous gases

 

Perhaps you typed that in incorrectly and meant something other?

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I'm the entrenched to you.? You don't know me from a can of paint buddy. Fire is a God given blessing as well as the world's natural gas. Yes I used the G word here. (Can here it now .)

The world won't be "safer" by eliminating natural gas in homes.

As far as my "kind of thinking" once again you don't know me or what I have convictions about or what I stand for.

I can easily throw that back on you but once again I won't don't dare go against the herd mentality of some folks here especially not the more "esteemed" members.

This is a community that I once thought was about tolerance..... (there's that word again) seems to me to be anything but.

Been through it here a couple of years ago and I got kicked off for stating my opinions.

You can have opinions here it seems as long as it agrees with some of the top "entrenched" members here

Let us neanderthals use our gas ranges and gas dryers in peace please and stop trying to find solutions to made up problems.

Think about that the next time you fire up your gasoline powered car with a combustion engine.

Have a nice day.
 
Pretty much all the houses I've lived in have had gas everything and only wired for 120. Conversion to electric would require extensive upgrading. I'm afraid I've never noticed any problems with gas, don't know of anyone with any health problems related to gas stoves. I've never noticed any smell of any kind. More to the point, I've experienced entirely too many power failures. I want at least 2 burners that light with a battery spark or a match and a gas water heater.

I'll shut my mouth now. I'm afraid the former English teacher in me escaped and took control. That article is so badly written I really don't know where to begin. I got about half way through and decided I needed to be on the clock to go any further.
 
It's interesting talking about unvented gas ranges and their effects on indoor air quality.  However, using other types of gas appliances that are installed with vents to outside should not negatively affect indoor air quality as all combustion by-products are exhausted outside. 

 

Gas cooking appliances are the exception as they are not themselves vented outside, although you may have a hood which may be vented outside and may or may not be turned on. 

 

As for venting a dryer indoors, this is usually not ideal (I wouldn't want to do it) due to the lint and moisture, unless you attach an additional "filter" to capture the fine lint and don't have a problem with humidity.  This applies to both gas and electric vented dryers.  In terms of any risk posed by venting a gas dryer indoors, this is interesting because most people believe that this is dangerous, yet they don't believe that having a gas range is dangerous.  In reality, a gas dryer should burn very efficiently and always has some kind of timer to ensure it should eventually shut off.  Whereas a gas cooktop can be burning far more gas than a dryer and it can be burning very inefficiently when you put cold pans on to boil, resulting in more emissions being given off into the home compared to the emissions from a gas dryer (other than what you would get anyway from an electric dryer).  

 

The installation of gas appliances in the UK is strictly regulated in terms of who can install them, what checks have to be made after installation, the suitable location of the appliance and the provision of make up air, if the combustion is not sealed from the room air.  The regulations on flues for gas appliances are strict, however, gas dryers are not required to be permanently vented outside unless required by the manufacturer, although it is highly recommended and I would imagine almost all are.  Gas dryers do need to have provision for ventilation for safe operation but permanent outdoor venting requirements are the same as for electric vented dryers (recommended but not compulsory).  This is because they don't pose any greater risk than a gas cooker/range/oven/hob/cooktop etc.  In fact, they are likely to be far far safer.  

 

As for cost, cooking typically accounts for only a small fraction of household energy use.  In Palm Springs, electricity is very expensive and you have either a tiered or time-of-use plan.  I have a tiered plan, which starts at $0.19/kWh and as you use more you then start paying $0.25 and then end up paying $0.43/kWh for the rest if you progress into the top tier.  Whereas gas is less than $0.04/kWh.  So the saving is clear.  However I still much prefer an induction cooktop over gas.  Induction can go lower and far higher than a gas burner.  It responds instantly.  It is far more efficient (uses less energy) and emits less heat to the room, offsetting the higher cost of electricity to some extent, but not completely.  I suspect that many (most?) people would prefer induction if they tried it for a couple of months and would not want to go back to gas.  
 
There are other concerns also.Induction ranges or non coil electric stoves have GLASS cooktops. Metal and glass is not the best combination for an appliance that gets used nearly every day.

There is always the potential you accidently drop a heavy pot on the cooktop. The glass shatters and then what? Will it be half the purchase price to replace the glass cooktop on your stove ? Or will you have to buy another range.

My new home has a Whirlpool gas stove installed and already I'm thinking of maybe taking my Tappan with me. No electronics on the Tappan and the analog controls still work after 33 years.
 
Wow, such strum und drang.  You like gas, use it, you like electric use it. I've had a gas cooktop for 30 years, and no my kitchen is not dirty, in fact I  have white wallpaper that in no way is discolored.  I also have an unvented dryer NEXT to a CO2 detector that reads "0".  I also had a smooth top range for many many years it never cracked but I didn't thow pots at it, if they cracked they would not still be on the market so just a staw man.

 

I can adjust my gas burner to EXACTLY the heat I want, my cooktop has an assortment of burners with a range of outputs, from next to nothing to 19,000 btu's, I can easily cook rice perfectly, I just use the correct burner.  I'd opt for induction, put the cost is 50-200% more than my gas cooktop plus I'd need a selection of new cookware.  I can easily run the power line myself, but the wire and breaker would add $125+ to the cost, so for me not worth it.

 

I like induction, it does a great job but my personal cost/benefit analysis indicates not worth it at this point for me.  Your free to do what you think is best.
 

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