sudsmaster
Well-known member
Are there any health concerns for people with pacemakers etc vis-a-vis induction cooktops?
Gas Stoves and Indoor Pollution
- Thread starter blackstone
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sudsmaster
Well-known member
More info:
"The British Heart Foundation recommends that people with a pacemaker should get no closer than 60 cms (2 ft) from an induction hob. "
https://inductionguide.com/do-induction-cooktops-affect-pacemakers/
"The British Heart Foundation recommends that people with a pacemaker should get no closer than 60 cms (2 ft) from an induction hob. "
https://inductionguide.com/do-induction-cooktops-affect-pacemakers/
sudsmaster
Well-known member
And, an induction cooktop may also interfere with insulin pumps.
No thanks!
If I had a pacemaker or an insulin pump, I wouldn't get an induction cooktop or range. I don't think I could cook effectively staying two feet away, and I wouldn't want to run the risk.
No thanks!
If I had a pacemaker or an insulin pump, I wouldn't get an induction cooktop or range. I don't think I could cook effectively staying two feet away, and I wouldn't want to run the risk.
If You Want To [ Or Have To ] Use Gas To Cook In Your Home
Just be sure you have a good exhaust system that vents outside, and use it even if you are just boiling water in a tea kettle.
This can be a good vented hood, a wall mounted fan or a ceiling mounted exhaust fan, If you have a ceiling fan in the kitchen with gas cooking NEVER run it when the range is on, it causes inverted air currents and poor combustion of surface burners making the pollution problems worse. A ceiling fan also causes air currents that keep vented hoods and wall or ceiling exhaust fans from doing their job.
If your kitchen does not have a vented exhaust system use a portable fan exhausting air from the nearest window to the range, even if the closest window in in the next room.
John L.
Just be sure you have a good exhaust system that vents outside, and use it even if you are just boiling water in a tea kettle.
This can be a good vented hood, a wall mounted fan or a ceiling mounted exhaust fan, If you have a ceiling fan in the kitchen with gas cooking NEVER run it when the range is on, it causes inverted air currents and poor combustion of surface burners making the pollution problems worse. A ceiling fan also causes air currents that keep vented hoods and wall or ceiling exhaust fans from doing their job.
If your kitchen does not have a vented exhaust system use a portable fan exhausting air from the nearest window to the range, even if the closest window in in the next room.
John L.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Most people don't have pacemakers.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Most people don't have positive Covid-19 tests.
Doesn't mean there isn't a significant health risk from induction cooktops.
Doesn't mean there isn't a significant health risk from induction cooktops.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I did some searching of articles on the proposed health risk from gas stoves.
On one of them from the Rocky Mountain Institute, they have a photo of a gas burner at the top of the page.
Guess what? That burner is in extremely poor adjustment, with a massive orange flame. Guess what? That is a badly adjusted burner that is not getting enough air. Of course that will pollute! A well adjusted flame is all blue, with no yellow or orange.
https://rmi.org/insight/gas-stoves-pollution-health/
On one of them from the Rocky Mountain Institute, they have a photo of a gas burner at the top of the page.
Guess what? That burner is in extremely poor adjustment, with a massive orange flame. Guess what? That is a badly adjusted burner that is not getting enough air. Of course that will pollute! A well adjusted flame is all blue, with no yellow or orange.
https://rmi.org/insight/gas-stoves-pollution-health/
sudsmaster
Well-known member
No association found between gas stove usage and adults with asthma:
https://oem.bmj.com/content/60/10/759
https://oem.bmj.com/content/60/10/759
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
I think I'm beginning to lose the plot here.
From what you guys are saying it sounds like there are people on the planet who cook with gas burners that flame yellow and orange and don't have a problem with it???
Last I heard flames were supposed to be all blue all the time. Or did I grow up in some alternate dimension?
From what you guys are saying it sounds like there are people on the planet who cook with gas burners that flame yellow and orange and don't have a problem with it???
Last I heard flames were supposed to be all blue all the time. Or did I grow up in some alternate dimension?
sudsmaster
Well-known member
The Little Discussed Dangers of Induction Stoves
"While it is extremely controversial whether this type of radiation source is actually dangerous, the data is sufficient enough for me to avoid it. The latest information I found that should give anyone pause about bringing an induction stove into their home was published by the Journal Bioelectromagnetics in 2012 (1).
The study authors concluded that most induction hobs (rings) exceeded even the high 1998 maximum exposure levels set by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) when a person was standing close to the induction stove.
The worst-case scenario was an up to 16-fold increase from these maximum exposure levels!
So how in the world did induction stoves ever pass the safety tests? According to Powerwatch, the safety tests assumed that a person’s body is never closer than 1 foot (30 cm) to the front of the induction stove. Standing that far away would be considered “normal usage”.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t cook standing at least a foot away from my stove. My arms definitely aren’t long enough!
In fact, this would be pretty much impossible if you needed to reach the back burners."
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/induction-stove-dangers-what-to-buy-instead/
"While it is extremely controversial whether this type of radiation source is actually dangerous, the data is sufficient enough for me to avoid it. The latest information I found that should give anyone pause about bringing an induction stove into their home was published by the Journal Bioelectromagnetics in 2012 (1).
The study authors concluded that most induction hobs (rings) exceeded even the high 1998 maximum exposure levels set by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) when a person was standing close to the induction stove.
The worst-case scenario was an up to 16-fold increase from these maximum exposure levels!
So how in the world did induction stoves ever pass the safety tests? According to Powerwatch, the safety tests assumed that a person’s body is never closer than 1 foot (30 cm) to the front of the induction stove. Standing that far away would be considered “normal usage”.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t cook standing at least a foot away from my stove. My arms definitely aren’t long enough!
In fact, this would be pretty much impossible if you needed to reach the back burners."
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/induction-stove-dangers-what-to-buy-instead/
sudsmaster
Well-known member
"Exposure of the human body to professional and domestic induction cooktops compared to the basic restrictions."
"ABSTRACT: We investigated whether domestic and professional induction cooktops comply with the basic restrictions defined by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP). Based on magnetic field measurements, a generic numerical model of an induction cooktop was derived in order to model user exposure. The current density induced in the user was simulated for various models and distances. We also determined the exposure of the fetus and of young children. While most measured cooktops comply with the public exposure limits at the distance specified by the International Electrotechnical Commission (standard IEC 62233), the majority exceeds them at closer distances, some of them even the occupational limits. The maximum current density in the tissue of the user significantly exceeds the basic restrictions for the general public, reaching the occupational level. The exposure of the brains of young children reaches the order of magnitude of the limits for the general public. For a generic worst-case cooktop compliant with the measurement standards, the current density exceeds the 1998 ICNIRP basic restrictions by up to 24 dB or a factor of 16. The brain tissue of young children can be overexposed by 6 dB or a factor of 2. The exposure of the tissue of the central nervous system of the fetus can exceed the limits for the general public if the mother is exposed at occupational levels. This demonstrates that the methodology for testing induction cooktops according to IEC 62233 contradicts the basic restrictions. This evaluation will be extended considering."
My conclusion: with a gas cooktop, I can turn on the range hood over it and exhaust the pollutants it might emit. With an induction cooktop, there is no way to blow away damaging EMF.
I'll stick with gas, or resistance electric, thanks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22674188
"ABSTRACT: We investigated whether domestic and professional induction cooktops comply with the basic restrictions defined by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP). Based on magnetic field measurements, a generic numerical model of an induction cooktop was derived in order to model user exposure. The current density induced in the user was simulated for various models and distances. We also determined the exposure of the fetus and of young children. While most measured cooktops comply with the public exposure limits at the distance specified by the International Electrotechnical Commission (standard IEC 62233), the majority exceeds them at closer distances, some of them even the occupational limits. The maximum current density in the tissue of the user significantly exceeds the basic restrictions for the general public, reaching the occupational level. The exposure of the brains of young children reaches the order of magnitude of the limits for the general public. For a generic worst-case cooktop compliant with the measurement standards, the current density exceeds the 1998 ICNIRP basic restrictions by up to 24 dB or a factor of 16. The brain tissue of young children can be overexposed by 6 dB or a factor of 2. The exposure of the tissue of the central nervous system of the fetus can exceed the limits for the general public if the mother is exposed at occupational levels. This demonstrates that the methodology for testing induction cooktops according to IEC 62233 contradicts the basic restrictions. This evaluation will be extended considering."
My conclusion: with a gas cooktop, I can turn on the range hood over it and exhaust the pollutants it might emit. With an induction cooktop, there is no way to blow away damaging EMF.
I'll stick with gas, or resistance electric, thanks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22674188
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Jim wrote:
"I think I'm beginning to lose the plot here.
From what you guys are saying it sounds like there are people on the planet who cook with gas burners that flame yellow and orange and don't have a problem with it???
Last I heard flames were supposed to be all blue all the time. Or did I grow up in some alternate dimension?"
Nobody is saying people who use mal-adjusted gas ranges don't have problems with it. What I'm saying it that an observant homeowner should make sure their gas range is operating to spec, and yellow/orange flames are NOT to spec.
Yes, the gas flame should be all blue all the time. If it's not, call the gas company. I remember as far back as the 1960's our local gas company informing customers of this requirement.
"I think I'm beginning to lose the plot here.
From what you guys are saying it sounds like there are people on the planet who cook with gas burners that flame yellow and orange and don't have a problem with it???
Last I heard flames were supposed to be all blue all the time. Or did I grow up in some alternate dimension?"
Nobody is saying people who use mal-adjusted gas ranges don't have problems with it. What I'm saying it that an observant homeowner should make sure their gas range is operating to spec, and yellow/orange flames are NOT to spec.
Yes, the gas flame should be all blue all the time. If it's not, call the gas company. I remember as far back as the 1960's our local gas company informing customers of this requirement.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I will add this to the natural gas story: Some years ago, perhaps 20 or more, our local gas company, PGE, notified customers that it was purging its gas distribution lines of a toxic additive, PCB (polychlorinatedbiphenyl) that had been used to help prevent internal corrosion of the pipes.
PCB's are somewhat notorious because they have been used as an insulating medium in electrical power transformers, such as seen mounted high on power poles in neighborhoods. By law it was phased out starting in 1979. It is mentioned as a continuing contaminant in maintained power transformers, which may be how it wound up inadvertently being added to gas distribution lines.
In any case I wasn't too alarmed because the announcement stated that residual PCB was in minute amounts, and that the purging of the lines would eliminate the problem.
Also I have learned since from Googling the issue, that PCB's can be made less toxic, perhaps non-toxic, by treating them to remove the chlorine atoms and then the cleaned up product can be used as a safer transformer insulation fluid.
Anyway, this thread triggered the memory of that announcement and I though I'd share. But I won't point at gas being the evil here, because without electric power distribution transformers the PCB's wouldn't have been used so much. And there is at least one hit in Google that a 16 year old girl was harmed by PCB's leaking from a failed power distribution transformer.
PCB's are somewhat notorious because they have been used as an insulating medium in electrical power transformers, such as seen mounted high on power poles in neighborhoods. By law it was phased out starting in 1979. It is mentioned as a continuing contaminant in maintained power transformers, which may be how it wound up inadvertently being added to gas distribution lines.
In any case I wasn't too alarmed because the announcement stated that residual PCB was in minute amounts, and that the purging of the lines would eliminate the problem.
Also I have learned since from Googling the issue, that PCB's can be made less toxic, perhaps non-toxic, by treating them to remove the chlorine atoms and then the cleaned up product can be used as a safer transformer insulation fluid.
Anyway, this thread triggered the memory of that announcement and I though I'd share. But I won't point at gas being the evil here, because without electric power distribution transformers the PCB's wouldn't have been used so much. And there is at least one hit in Google that a 16 year old girl was harmed by PCB's leaking from a failed power distribution transformer.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Everything said and done, all this info leads me to start using the hood fan over the cooktop every time I turn it on. Especially in winter, but year round as well.
Reply# 67
Oh dear, I must have imagined those asthma attacks.
So they didn't check if the people with gas stoves used them or not? lol! And I haven't seen the difference between allergic and non-allergic asthma being mentioned. As a matter of fact they mention testing for atopy, which means that the people tested positive for that may not have had non-allergic asthma, the type of asthma that gives problems with fumes, smoke etc.
Oh dear, I must have imagined those asthma attacks.
So they didn't check if the people with gas stoves used them or not? lol! And I haven't seen the difference between allergic and non-allergic asthma being mentioned. As a matter of fact they mention testing for atopy, which means that the people tested positive for that may not have had non-allergic asthma, the type of asthma that gives problems with fumes, smoke etc.
ozzie908
Well-known member
Cooker hoods
My catering kitchen had a built in safety device that would not allow any gas to flow without the hood being switched on first it was made to prevent fumes building up and when your stood in front of a 6 ring hob a grill and 2 gas fired fryers you needed something to take the heat out let alone the fumes
My catering kitchen had a built in safety device that would not allow any gas to flow without the hood being switched on first it was made to prevent fumes building up and when your stood in front of a 6 ring hob a grill and 2 gas fired fryers you needed something to take the heat out let alone the fumes
orange flames
I remember seeing cooking shows on TV and the flame photographs yellow, orange and blue. I was told it had something to with the heat and chemical composition of the flame and how they are picked up by cameras. I do not know if that is true, but that is the way it was explained. I do remember from when we had a gas stove that the flame would be shot through with orange streaks and sparks when dinner was being prepared around 5pm. I, of course, asked mom about this and she said it had to do with heavy gas usage at that time of day and impurities in the gas mains being dislodged by the greater flow. Again, this is only what I was told. At other times of the day the flame was all blue.
I remember seeing cooking shows on TV and the flame photographs yellow, orange and blue. I was told it had something to with the heat and chemical composition of the flame and how they are picked up by cameras. I do not know if that is true, but that is the way it was explained. I do remember from when we had a gas stove that the flame would be shot through with orange streaks and sparks when dinner was being prepared around 5pm. I, of course, asked mom about this and she said it had to do with heavy gas usage at that time of day and impurities in the gas mains being dislodged by the greater flow. Again, this is only what I was told. At other times of the day the flame was all blue.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
We're always working to improve and become more efficient and safe.
50 years ago, people were still using coal and wood for heat. Something that is so dirty noxious. When I lived in the Boston area in 2006 one could still find listings in the news paper for people who sold and delivered coal. Unthinkable.
I think that all residential gas service should be discontinued. I think there should be an deliberate effort to convert to electric or solar.
In the sunny areas/cities where it typically doesn't get below 40 degrees and we really don't need large quantities of gas they should give it 12 months and have rate freezes on electric as well as offer customers help with installing alternative appliances.
In the north areas they should do similar but offer more help with insulation and heating appliances and funnel the gas to more portable neighborhood gas power plants. But we need to remember that because the U.S. has been getting more efficient in it's electric usage, we peaked in electric consumption around 2012 so there is excess capacity already.
As solar and battery storage continues to take over, the idea of having volatile gas appliances in our homes is going to look as ridiculous as having a coal burner.
And we can't forget, there was actually a time when homes were plumbed for (unvented) gas LIGHTING. Can you imagine the heat build up and poisonous fumes? OMG. .....and the house fires.
Those old technologies served their purpose..... it's just that better stuff came along.
50 years ago, people were still using coal and wood for heat. Something that is so dirty noxious. When I lived in the Boston area in 2006 one could still find listings in the news paper for people who sold and delivered coal. Unthinkable.
I think that all residential gas service should be discontinued. I think there should be an deliberate effort to convert to electric or solar.
In the sunny areas/cities where it typically doesn't get below 40 degrees and we really don't need large quantities of gas they should give it 12 months and have rate freezes on electric as well as offer customers help with installing alternative appliances.
In the north areas they should do similar but offer more help with insulation and heating appliances and funnel the gas to more portable neighborhood gas power plants. But we need to remember that because the U.S. has been getting more efficient in it's electric usage, we peaked in electric consumption around 2012 so there is excess capacity already.
As solar and battery storage continues to take over, the idea of having volatile gas appliances in our homes is going to look as ridiculous as having a coal burner.
And we can't forget, there was actually a time when homes were plumbed for (unvented) gas LIGHTING. Can you imagine the heat build up and poisonous fumes? OMG. .....and the house fires.
Those old technologies served their purpose..... it's just that better stuff came along.
Reply #66 and 69
reply # 66 was probably a dramatization of a bad gas flame, no properly working gas range produces a flame that looks like that,
Note : there are no adjustments possible on the great majority of gas ranges built today.
reply #69, I dare say no one has ever been harmed by either an induction cook-top or a microwave oven, up until a few years ago [ last time I actually checked ] there had never been an injury from a MWO caused by MW energy according to HEW which regulates MWOS in the US, this makes MWOs about the safest appliance in a home, I suspect that the injury rate on ICTs will also be a fraction of injuries caused by conventual electric or gas CTs.
John L.
reply # 66 was probably a dramatization of a bad gas flame, no properly working gas range produces a flame that looks like that,
Note : there are no adjustments possible on the great majority of gas ranges built today.
reply #69, I dare say no one has ever been harmed by either an induction cook-top or a microwave oven, up until a few years ago [ last time I actually checked ] there had never been an injury from a MWO caused by MW energy according to HEW which regulates MWOS in the US, this makes MWOs about the safest appliance in a home, I suspect that the injury rate on ICTs will also be a fraction of injuries caused by conventual electric or gas CTs.
John L.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
I think propane tanks up to 100 lbs are an acceptable risk. If say someone wanted to cook or use a Bar-b-q, or fireplace once in a while.
We obviously have limits on what is acceptable. We don't allow people to buy uranium in easy open packages from the gas stations. We don't allow the easy access to buying mercury in packs of 3 for $10. Nor do we produce Chlorine Triflouride for kids to use in at home chemistry sets (though maybe in the 50s they did).
Leaded gas isn't made anymore.
We change. We improve.
The problem with piped in gas is you potentially have an unlimited supply. With propane, if an empty home sat for say 4 months and had a small leak and it filled the home, it would fill until the tank was empty and then by infiltration that gas would be diluted.
If it were a piped service it would fill and fill until inevitably a fire source ignited the gas and it would explode.
We obviously have limits on what is acceptable. We don't allow people to buy uranium in easy open packages from the gas stations. We don't allow the easy access to buying mercury in packs of 3 for $10. Nor do we produce Chlorine Triflouride for kids to use in at home chemistry sets (though maybe in the 50s they did).
Leaded gas isn't made anymore.
We change. We improve.
The problem with piped in gas is you potentially have an unlimited supply. With propane, if an empty home sat for say 4 months and had a small leak and it filled the home, it would fill until the tank was empty and then by infiltration that gas would be diluted.
If it were a piped service it would fill and fill until inevitably a fire source ignited the gas and it would explode.
Checked mine closer to see about the flame
And will make adjustments by loosing the screw. (Pic of adjusting vent on burner)
Also shown is the flame..I do see some flickers on orange? Maybe a little more cleaning is needed.
Not bad for a 100 year old stove.
Due to this thread, Ill be more conscious.. or maybe unconscious if the gas gets me!
And will make adjustments by loosing the screw. (Pic of adjusting vent on burner)
Also shown is the flame..I do see some flickers on orange? Maybe a little more cleaning is needed.
Not bad for a 100 year old stove.
Due to this thread, Ill be more conscious.. or maybe unconscious if the gas gets me!
Gas burner adjustments
Hi Stan, basically open up the shutters as much as possible till just before the flame starts to blow away from the burner or gets noisy.
Little flecks of orange are just bits of dust etc being burned, if you blow on or around a gas flame you see this happen, if the flame has yellow-orange tips that is too little air or too much gas for the burner.
John L.
Hi Stan, basically open up the shutters as much as possible till just before the flame starts to blow away from the burner or gets noisy.
Little flecks of orange are just bits of dust etc being burned, if you blow on or around a gas flame you see this happen, if the flame has yellow-orange tips that is too little air or too much gas for the burner.
John L.
I’ve adjusted the burner before on my Maytag DG306 I restored last year and and the burner seems to be more noisy and when the shutter is opened up more and seems to be quieter when partially closed. Adjusted it back to the way is was before when I got it and referenced a photo I took of the burner shutter when I first got it
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Over a year ago my gas fired water heater stopped working. Had to take a shower at my neighbor's the next day. At my first opportunity I checked out the heater, which is safely out of the house in an enclosed but well ventilated patio area and vented straight up through the patio roof. Turned out some thing clogged the pilot light - it was out. After cleaning the pilot jet and running some gas through the valve, it's been working just fine again. One thing the line there lacks is a little drop tube just before the flex line to the heater, to catch any debris that might happen along. It's on my 2do list.
So yeah, natural gas can have dust and stuff in it that makes the flame vary from blue. But it should be blue nearly all the time.
Anybody besides me remember the California electricity crisis of the early 21st century? And the rolling blackouts? Gas ranges sure came in handy during that time, eh?
So yeah, natural gas can have dust and stuff in it that makes the flame vary from blue. But it should be blue nearly all the time.
Anybody besides me remember the California electricity crisis of the early 21st century? And the rolling blackouts? Gas ranges sure came in handy during that time, eh?
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Thanks guys, for the info. I was always taught that flames should be 100% blue. Glad to now I was taught right
When I was young my grandmother's stove (Bengal?) with a vented heater would occasionally need burner adjustments as did the previous ones. You'd start seeing yellow and orange flames. G'ma wouldn't use the burner and get my grandfather. There was one type of adjustment he'd make (I was too young to understand what that was. I'd guess the shutters.) and if that didn't solve the problem he'd tell her not to use that burner and call the gas company for someone to come and fix/adjust it.
Coal and other old tech. A problem is that as time goes by the accumulation of knowledge is lost. In the 90's I taught in an NYC public school that was heated by coal. I only knew that because I saw the coal ash in can waiting to be picked up. The school had a full-time Fire Man specifically licensed to run that type of coal fired boiler. The basement was immaculate. On cold Monday mornings teachers would actually come down and eat their lunch in the boiler room because it was warm. The room was utterly immaculate. Not one spec of dust not one hint of odor. Not once not ever....
A few years later NYC decided to replace all the coal fired boilers with gas. Apparently many of the coal boilers were not properly maintained and there were all sorts of problems that were hidden under the rug. Guess what? Not one of the schools that had problems had a full time licensed Fire Man. ALL the schools that did had zero problems. It was explained to me that fewer guys bothered to get that certification as the years went by. However the number of such boilers was shrinking at a slower rate. Therefore such guys were in demand and were able to find jobs that paid more than the NYC Board of Ed. Hence the lack of qualified people to run such boilers so problems arose.
Same applies to low-pressure one-pipe steam heat in the northeast. The dearth of properly trained people has resulted in a whole generation that has no clue that steam heat is supposed to be almost silent. There's a thread on that somewhere. I may have ranted a bit on it.........
I don't think old systems should be taken out of service/ made illegal, etc. But I DO think solar with battery back-up should be much more heavily subsidized and be more widespread.
When I was young my grandmother's stove (Bengal?) with a vented heater would occasionally need burner adjustments as did the previous ones. You'd start seeing yellow and orange flames. G'ma wouldn't use the burner and get my grandfather. There was one type of adjustment he'd make (I was too young to understand what that was. I'd guess the shutters.) and if that didn't solve the problem he'd tell her not to use that burner and call the gas company for someone to come and fix/adjust it.
Coal and other old tech. A problem is that as time goes by the accumulation of knowledge is lost. In the 90's I taught in an NYC public school that was heated by coal. I only knew that because I saw the coal ash in can waiting to be picked up. The school had a full-time Fire Man specifically licensed to run that type of coal fired boiler. The basement was immaculate. On cold Monday mornings teachers would actually come down and eat their lunch in the boiler room because it was warm. The room was utterly immaculate. Not one spec of dust not one hint of odor. Not once not ever....
A few years later NYC decided to replace all the coal fired boilers with gas. Apparently many of the coal boilers were not properly maintained and there were all sorts of problems that were hidden under the rug. Guess what? Not one of the schools that had problems had a full time licensed Fire Man. ALL the schools that did had zero problems. It was explained to me that fewer guys bothered to get that certification as the years went by. However the number of such boilers was shrinking at a slower rate. Therefore such guys were in demand and were able to find jobs that paid more than the NYC Board of Ed. Hence the lack of qualified people to run such boilers so problems arose.
Same applies to low-pressure one-pipe steam heat in the northeast. The dearth of properly trained people has resulted in a whole generation that has no clue that steam heat is supposed to be almost silent. There's a thread on that somewhere. I may have ranted a bit on it.........
I don't think old systems should be taken out of service/ made illegal, etc. But I DO think solar with battery back-up should be much more heavily subsidized and be more widespread.
Reply #85
I remember my mom saying the price of electricity all of a sudden skyrocketed in the years 2000, and before that the price of electricity was fairly reasonable before the price skyrocketed in 2000. The current house I live in has solar and our electric bill even in the summertime with the air conditioner running is below $100 and there are times where it is a little over $100 but it’s not all that common anymore since solar has brought our bill way down compared to before we got solar.
I remember my mom saying the price of electricity all of a sudden skyrocketed in the years 2000, and before that the price of electricity was fairly reasonable before the price skyrocketed in 2000. The current house I live in has solar and our electric bill even in the summertime with the air conditioner running is below $100 and there are times where it is a little over $100 but it’s not all that common anymore since solar has brought our bill way down compared to before we got solar.
arbilab
Well-known member
"I've got 6 CO detectors and they never go off"
How many nitrogen dioxide detectors do you have? Pritdang toxic, specially in an enclosed environment where it can build up. I'm not adendizing. Gas has its place. I'd dread the cost of electric house and water heat. But if you're going to burn the stuff in your kitchen, at least skim this wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
How many nitrogen dioxide detectors do you have? Pritdang toxic, specially in an enclosed environment where it can build up. I'm not adendizing. Gas has its place. I'd dread the cost of electric house and water heat. But if you're going to burn the stuff in your kitchen, at least skim this wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
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