HVAC Woes

[bradfordwhite]

With all due respect,  that's a bad install.

 

The AC unit is installed basically in the middle of a sea of loose fill insulation with no access.  Plus the access panels are positioned in the furthest away location requiring awkward and dangerous maneuvering to check the machine.  There's also uninsulated plenums which cuts efficiency.  

 

Regardless of where ones air handlers or furnaces are installed, the prospect of inspecting them should not make one wince with dread. 

 

If it were me and the air handler is still good, I would reposition it AFTER building at least a 2' wide raised above the insulation walkway from the attic hatch to a 8x8' raised platform for where the unit would go.

 

I would install the unit vertical, given the situation.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

[bradfordwhite]

And what in the world is going on here?

 

Why is there no insulation?  Is this over a porch or lanai? 

 

 

----

 

You'll need something like Zinsser to seal that drywall, then paint to match.

 

[DADoES]

 
I agree it's not a good installation but it is what it is until the system needs replacement ... which may not be too far away being that it's 16yo.

There are only two HVAC outfits in town.  One has been operating for *years* and is accordingly expen$ive.  They take care of the systems at work, and a couple of their techs are kinda goofy.  They've called me while onsite to ask my opinion on what's wrong, LOL.

The other is somewhat newer and more rea$onable but also questionable on skills.  They installed new systems (none exited prior) at two of RJ's rental refurbs.  One install they shorted the backup heat strip capacity vs. what was contracted.  RJ caught on to it after-the-fact, required they correct the situation.  They had to run larger wiring so it clearly wasn't an oversight kind of mistake.  The other install they didn't configure the thermostat to be programmable as he asked, which I fixed after downloading the Installer Manual.  They installed a replacement system for my parents and told dad some completely wrong details about the thermostat.

 

[chachp]

Ours is also horizontal...

 

<span style="font-family: georgia, palatino;">Damn, I hesitate to post a picture cuz this is a tough crowd.  LOL.  We bought the house two years ago and this was all here.  The pan under ours has a leak sensor in it which I didn't know.  So last summer we had an issue where it would start and run for a few minutes and shut off.  When they guy came out he noticed the pan had a little water in it and he thought the hose was clogged a little bit.  He cleaned out the pipe, dried out the pan and it's been fine.  </span>

<span style="font-family: georgia, palatino;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: georgia, palatino;">He said given how humid it is here its not unusual to have condensation run in the pan and it would normally run out and then dry but this had built up to may 1/8 inch or so.  It wasn't much but just enough to trip the sensor and shut everything down.</span>

[this post was last edited: 5/24/2020-16:13]

 

[DADoES]

 
Uninsulated area is a porch that wraps around the entire back of the house.

 

[luxflairguy]

Ralph!
Your response was in another language! Greek?

 

[chachp]

Must the the font I chose

 

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino;">It looked OK on mine.  Is that better?</span>

 

[mark_wpduet]

reply # 19

My ac is not freezing up. A coil looked fine (not frozen). From what I understand that's not the problem because the AC itself is working beautifully

He did put a vacuum from the outside the first visit because I heard the vacuum outside. The 2nd trip he actually cleaned all the water out of the overflow pan and cleaned the main drain pan with a vacuum. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think he checked the p trap.

 

[xraytech]

It seems so odd to me that you all have your hvac installed in the attic.
Around here the hvac is located in the cellar along with hot water heater

 

[mark_wpduet]

I know

Isn't that the STUPIDEST thing? Also, the dryer vents through the roof!! But there is no cellar here. It's just a concret slab. It freaks me out when we have bad storms because there is absolutely no place to go other than the most interior section of the house. And get this, in 2004, when my house was being built, the concrete slab was laid, the house directly beside mine was almost built and we had a tornado and the house beside mine had to be torn down. The tornado started right at our area and went across the street into the next subdivision and did all kinds of damage.

 

[chachp]

Not too many basements here.

 

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;">Our Hot water heater is also in the attic.  It's in a pan with a drain should there be a leak.  I put a moisture sensor there to alert me to any kind of a leak.</span>

 

[DADoES]

 
I've never seen a cellar or basement here on residential construction, which is not to say a few don't exist.  Commercial or public-service buildings such as libraries and court houses and large hospitals may have them.

 

[sfh074]

Had an hvac ....

with a low freon charge once.

In cooler weather it would ice up and leak water out the bottom because of an ice dam between the evap coil and the drain pan, but it cooled the house. In hotter weather it didn't cool very well and that is when I finally called the repair company. They added some stop leak and topped off the freon charge. It ran another 6 years with no problems before we eventually sold the house.

 

[sudsmaster]

I cannot understand the logic behind sticking 20 to 50 gallons of water in a failure prone tank in an attic. It would be simple enough to build a little hot water heater closet on the side of the house.

 

[xraytech]

It seems odd to me as well that there are areas where homes don’t have a cellar and are built on a slab or has a crawl space.

In this area it would be very uncommon to see a home without a cellar

 

[mark_wpduet]

Just now, bumped the AC down to 68 so it would run a bit.....about 10 min later walked around to side of the house.....It's a very SLOW drip coming out the pipe. Like a drip every 15 seconds vs the garage where it's a super fast drip. Sounds like a clog somewhere to me for sure. I could be wrong, but I think a very little bit of water may be getting around the clog where it will drip slowly. It should be dripping like it is now in the garage. I've seen it drip fast when the AC is running in the past. But this....this is a very slow drip.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Basement vs Attic

1. They put the climate control appliance you use the most in the place where it will distribute the easiest. Heat rises, cooled air falls. That is basic science. So in warm climate AC in the attic makes sense. In ares like New England and Midwest, where a minimum crawlspace is really necessary for comfort and foundation, you'd put your heat source under the house because the heat rises.

2. No body apparently really wants a basement, but especially in cold regions a basement or crawlspace is necessary for the foundation. They also cost more. We can understand why contractors would not want to spend the money and extra time building them. (I like them) Also, some regions in the south and in earthquake prone regions, a typical basement won't work. In Fla., the ground water table is often only a couple of feet under ground so a basement would just fill with water permanently. In earthquake areas with ground constantly shifting it would be a joke. (About as funny a joke of pouring a slab on shifting soils but....)

3. def. no water heaters in the attic in earthquake prone areas. Surely we can see why that wouldn't work. As it is now, it's law that those ridiculous tanks need to be thoroughly 'seat belted in" so they will be less likely to fall over. The idea of having a 40, 50, 80 gallon water heater in a standard residential home is just ridiculous. A tankless is so much more efficient and safe.

Sure, go ahead, strap that mongo heat producing gas water heater in so it doesn't tip over. lol.
Never ever would I put up with gas appliances in an earthquake prone home, nor would I want to live on a slab in such an area.

 

[bradfordwhite]

LOL

In 1986 when I lived in the LA area for the first time I went new house shopping.

I went to a new house developement East of L.A. by what was then called Kaufman & Broad homes or better known today by KB homes.
They were nice 2500 s.f. homes, most were 2 story and the subdivision was almost done.
The sales office said they had one home that was almost done but ran into a snag and wasn't available for sale.

It was a very nice 2 story with 4 bedrooms and a curved (1/2 circle) shaped stairs up (non-freestanding) But it wasn't open to view.
I went and looked in the windows anyway. It was almost done with no carpet but you could see in the sun light shining on the floor from the back windows a huge crack that had raised on one side and separated and it ran from the back of the house all the way to in front of those nice stairs in the foyer.

It's like, what do you do with it? How do you fix that. That's crazy. It could just be the beginning of the earths movement under the home.

And that can happen to any home in an earthquake affected area.

At least when you have a basement or crawlspace or a mobile home, you can work under neath the unit. You can even move it. But when the foundation floor is part of the living quarters you're rather screwed.

 

[circlew]

It only makes sense to install HVAC equipment in an attic if said attic is the "conditioned" type. Otherwise a cooling system in an attic has to work harder to overcome ambient heat, and heating equipment to overcome the cold environment.

 

[sudsmaster]

That slab crack easily could be from settlement, not from quakes.

I have a much more narrow crack running the length of the 1,000 sq ft workshop building on the property. It hasn't got any larger that I can tell, and we've had some moderate tremors since I acquired it. I believe it's from settlement, because the neighboring property (the workshop building in in the corner of the lot about six feet from the property line) drops off about five feet. There is a concrete retaining wall along the short side, but the long side had a decaying wood barrier. The condo association there shored it up with a new wooden retaining wall, but there is still a drop-off. So I planted a row of fast growing trees along the chainlink fence. I believe the roots are helping to stabilize the soil there. At some point I'm going to fill the slab crack with grout or cement or whatever is recommended. The building itself is all wood and doesn't appear to be suffering from the movement. I suspect with non-pre-stressed slabs around here, there are those who have cracked, and those who are going to crack. There also could be some heaving under the workshop. I dunno. Once I fill the crack, I suppose any protruding edges could be ground down, as is done with sidewalk cracks (which are numerous around here).

I do not share your aversion to gas appliances in California. I don't have an operating gas oven here, but if I did I'd vent it up through the roof. The gas cooktop is vented by the range hood. The forced air furnace in the crawl is vented through roof, as is the gas fired water heater in the enclosed patio.

Nothing is guaranteed. Even electricity can kill you. And, remember the big fire up north that killed scores of people? That wiped out an entire mountain community? That was started by... electric power...

And I still don't understand the logic, if any, or putting a water heater in the attic. Seems like it's just asking for trouble, regardless of how it's powered.