Incandescent light bulb BAN goes into effect next week

[bradfordwhite]

I'm not totally sure but I think it excludes things like mini christmas light bulbs and other specialty bulbs.

At this point, I'm sold on the LEDs anyway. Especially if they are replicating the amberish glow of an incandescent bulb. The efficiency is awesome.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i...r&cvid=10817fdc78c0490c864445f8dc9353e7&ei=20

 

[mattl]

No big deal for me, 99% of my many bulbs are LED. I am wondering about specialty bulbs, like oven lights that would be difficult to convert to LED.

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

It really makes me wonder, what’s going to happen with

With appliance bulbs, oven bulbs nightlight bulbs stuff with specific applications that could potentially require a filament

 

[sudsomatic]

 

 

Night light bulbs have been available as LED for several years now, also my 2018 fridge uses LED lighting, and I have had an LED bulb in my dryer, that I replaced the incandescent one for about 7 years ago.

 

I do wonder about ovens too though, and microwaves.

 

[combo52]

Incandescent lightbulb, phase out

There’s no problem using LED bulbs in microwave ovens. Also, the bulbs under over the range. Microwave ovens are switching out to LEDs.

Lightbulbs inside ovens will continue to be incandescent and be readily available. You’re heating the oven with resistance electric heat anyway so the bulb is actually assisting the heating of the oven that’s really what incandescent lightbulbs are best at anyway is heating Lighting efficiency is very low with incandescent bulbs.

John.

 

[DADoES]

 
"Specialty" incandescent bulbs will reasonably continue to be available for applications such an oven cavity where exposure to high temperatures is a factor.

I tried dimmable LED flood bulbs as a test in one of the auditoriums at the theater.  Didn't work with the electronic dimming system so I put them in the lobby.

I wonder, however, about halogen bulbs.  I have a couple puck-lights with three levels via a touchpad to illuminate chatchkas on a shelf above my family room TV.  One of the bulbs went out so I changed them both to LED bulbs which claim to be dimmable but the levels are erratic.  Low is medium, medium is high, high is barely visible.  My OTR microwave with high/low levels has halogen bulbs.

 

[wayupnorth]

Incandescent bulbs non non=existent here and staring next year, all florescent bulbs are outlawed here, including curly ones. Its LED only from now on in this state.

 

[bradfordwhite]

I can't believe there was this big push a while back to get everyone using fluorescent and compact fluorescents.
Those contain mercury.
And of course the compact ones, though they need special handling and disposal requirements, most people probably just throw them in the garbage.

I don't think there is any application remaining that fluorescent was doing that LEDs can't do better and in less space. It's just amazing.

 

[wayupnorth]

LED bulbs are fine but... I bought a 12 pack of curly compact ones for 99 cents at Walmart, lowest cost LED bulbs I have seen is at least 2 bucks each.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

I can live with this as long as it’s not mandatory as in backed by and conveyed by some gestapo patrolling every structure actively ordering bulbs taken out which are in an active use not yet ready to burn out and the LED’s replacing them be as ready to use and as bright, efficient and long-lasting as meeting these government standards as well as my own—ditto for that yellow-like, amberish glow we're so used to as well!

Someone should have raided Thomas Edison’s laboratory, then, a long time ago…

— Dave

 

[bradfordwhite]

Ban starts today

AFter 16 years of b.s.

-----

Dave, I have no doubt the FBI has you on top of their list. They're coming for any kind of incandescent bulb and will punish you big time. They'll also be confiscating all the potato chips and tubs of ice cream you've been hoarding. You're going to be blubbering like a pu..... on the side of the road when they're done with you.

-----

For normal people, it just means retailers can't sell most incandescent bulbs.

I wonder how this will play out on Ebay and the like with things like 1960s GE C7 or C9 Christmas light sets.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/01/business/incandescent-light-bulb-ban/index.html

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

it does make me wonder,

Why can’t we put in high intensity discharge bulbs, the kind that use a ballast and igniter, such as say for outdoor lighting and fluorescent for indoor lighting

 

[tolivac]

HID lamps can actually be more efficient than LED-in lumens per watt.Esp ceramic metal halide.Used by plant growers,some streetlights and indoor highbay lights.Also BETTER color quality than LED.Some LED lamps do allow you to adjust their color.That is something HID can't do-you have to change lamps.

 

[philcobendixduo]

Years ago....

......PG&E (our gas/electric provider) was subsidizing the cost CFL bulbs making them extremely inexpensive to purchase.
I bought a LARGE supply at the local hardware chain store (OSH) and still have MANY.
I am one to use things up before buying new so will most likely be using CFLs for many years to come.
I do have some LED bulbs (refrigerator, hanging light with candelabra bulbs, post lamp...) Christmas lights as well.
CFLs have presented some issues for me. When they fail, they tend to do so with smoke and burning smells.
CFLs also don't "play nice" with lighted wall switches. In a 3 way switch application, the CFL flashed on and off when it was turned off so I had to replace it with an incandescent bulb.
On the flip side, LED bulbs require compatible dimmers and don't work well with "old school" dimmers.

 

[DADoES]

 
Incandescent bulbs that are allowed:

- appliances (refrigerators and ovens)
- black lights
- bug lights
- colored bulbs
- infrared
- left-handed threads
- plant lights
- floodlamps
- reflector bulbs
- showcase bulbs
- traffic lights
- other specialty bulbs such as marine and odd sizes

 

[henene4]

LED lights in ovens

They are a thing.
Most upper end models now have them over here.

They require certain heat sinking systems to be included to keep the LED temps in check - but they even survive self cleaning, so.

Biggest difference there is that the chips themselves can get quite hot if rated for it, thus, these from factory solutions just let that part get hot-ish.
Removing the driving circuit from the actual LED chips means that you can cool the driving electronics with the rest of the electronics somewhere in the system. The chip itself can survive 200F, and you can keep it there quite easily.
Keep in mind cool touch doors exist and aren't particularly thick either.

On another note, we have a large low voltage lamp installation in our house back home.
Used to be halogen - total about 300W. You'd hear the transformer with its nice 50Hz humm.

Replaced all of them with LEDs last year because we wouldn't even turn it on because of how much it used.
It's now a tenth of the power with the same lighting quality.

 

[estesguy]

I never liked the curly fluorescent ones. Some brands took 1/2 second after flipping switch to light up. Doesn't sound like much but annoyed me when your used to incandescent bulbs instant on. But the bigger problem was using them in cold environments like garages in the winter. Those things would take a minute or more to reach full brightness, and when all you wanted to do was step out for a minute, you couldn't see anything. Plus the mercury issue..good riddance to those things. I just try and make sure the LEDs I buy are 2700-3000 Kelvin for warm white incandescent color inside my home.

 

[mattl]

There are few things    I hate more than CFLs. Hate the flat diffuse quality of their light output. Also hate some LEDs that have that flat light. Much prefer focused lighting in the home.

 

[maytag85]

I wouldn’t miss if these bans were banned “more than an abscessed tooth” to quote Hans/Norgeway.

 

[Chetlaham]

@tolivac: Remember Venture's formed arc tub pulse start metal halides? Those gave the best white light I've ever seen by far at exceptional lumens per what with great lumen maintenance. Like better than daylight. Color were edible, the air was like whine.

 

 

A lot of LEDs are over driven and get progressively dimmer as they age.

 

[Chetlaham]

Cleanup in Isle 19

Ooops- Meant to say *tube and *wine. Forgive the spelling- I'm awful at spelling words.   

 

 

Regarding LEDs I kind of have to agree with what someone called them over at a popular lighting forum "light emitting decorations" I think of that acronym every time I see LED lights and have him to thank in a good way. Don't get me wrong, LEDs have their place, but not all the LED lighting retrofits I've seen are to me love. 

 

For example,  a lot of the Cobra Heads around me have been replaced by LEDs that literally look like a sharp bullet of light coming from a central locus. Lots of pointy light around the fixture, yet ground and adjacent area coverage is really poor. The flat lens HPS were way better IMO.

 

Personally if it were me, I'd have street lighting at low pressure sodium. IIRC Advance Ballasts and Several lighting manufacturers offered a single coil reactive ballast that could drive a 35 or 55 watt HPS lamp  at 480 volts input. Nothing simpler or more elegant IMO.

 

 

 

[Chetlaham]

I did Remember Correctly!

Oh! Found it, my favorite ballast! Page 4-46 (165)

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cesco-content/unilog/Batch5/781087/116417-Catalog.pdf
 

Wiring diagram points to figure C, and "R-PFC" means reactive single coil choke ballast, power factor corrected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This elegant ballast lets you drive 35, 55 and 90 watt Low Pressure Sodium lamps without an igniter. Igniters are common on European SOX lamps and do fail. The 480 volt open circuit voltage strikes the arc, while the inductor then limits the current to a point where the arc voltage is dropped to a suitable level for warm up and normal operations. 

 

That means there is nothing to go wrong. No extra windings or igniters to fail like on HPS and Metal Halide.

 

480 volts is also a great voltage to run outdoor lighting circuits at- common on highways and bridges- most cobra heads on DOT roadways are fed at 480 volts line to line. Sadly because the open circuit voltage for common HPS and metal halides isn't 480, the need for complex regulation (trapazoid volt/current curves for HPS // peaked OCV for MH warm up), tight constant wattage limits and the need for a 2-4kv starting pulse leads to fixtures having an absolutely MASSIVE, HOT, Heavy,  multi winding multi tapped capacitor in series iron ballast with an igniter that fails in short order when the bulb starts cycling or gives out completely.

 

A choke ballast on the other hand has nothing that can fail. Can easily last 40-60 years. Bulb can be swapped out without having to worry if the ballast/igniter is good or will give out before the next re-lamping cycle. Its like having a preheat fluorescent tube but without the need for a starter. Instant start cold cathode corona discharge, done with a single core and coil.

Nothing in lighting technology comes closer to simplicity other than an incandescent bulb or a neon indicator in series with a resistor.  

 

[wayupnorth]

I know LED stop lights around here will not melt snow so drivers have to go cautiously, but can we get all LED bulbs at a low cost that we need now and NOT have to buy new fixtures.

 

[Chetlaham]

Yup. A lot of existing fluorescent, HID and Incandescent fixtures are now being retrofitted to LED. Ballast bypassed and the socket re-used, line voltage directly to the self ballasted LED corn cob.

 

 

Though, if it were me, parking lot lights, street lights, wall packs, posts, bollards, awning and most outdoor fixtures would be SOX Low Pressure Sodium. Monochromatic yellow can be so much fun

 

[cfz2882]

I have 3 18w* SOX lamps in my backyard-they were made in 1982-start out dim and reddish,warm up to the monochrome yellow after a few min.SOX and all the HID lamps are far superior to LED for pleasant,effective,non light polluting outdoor lighting-(more on this subject later when i get around to making a post on the subject )

 

[fisherpaykel]

Flat light from LED's

@mattl, I agree with your flat light comment, I succumbed to buying LED floodlights for my family room track lights and regret the flat light they produce. a couple/few of them have failed at shorter time than their supposed long life. Re street lighting it's as though the science of lighting engineering has gone out the window and the concept of parabolic reflectors dispersing light while minimizing direct glare is totally forgotten.

 

[mattl]

There are lots of focused narrow beam LEDs.  I have dozens around the house as up lights and in recessed cans.

 

[wayupnorth]

In a snowstorm, the LED traffic lights cover with snow and can not generate enough heat to melt them, causing a safety hazard.

 

[combo52]

LED traffic lights during snow storms

I’m sure this problem will be solved with a little bit of re-engineering and adding a little bit of electric heat. That’s thermostatically controlled to the traffic signals so they can warm up enough to take care of ice and snow.

This type of problem is easily solved. There’s no reason to use in efficient incandescent lightbulbs for this reason,when only necessary 20% of the time on probably 20% of the traffic signals in the US does not justify wasting all that energy not to go to LEDs.

John

 

[Chetlaham]

<blockquote>
have 3 18w* SOX lamps in my backyard-they were made in 1982-start out dim and reddish,warm up to the monochrome yellow after a few min.SOX and all the HID lamps are far superior to LED for pleasant,effective,non light polluting outdoor lighting-(more on this subject later when i get around to making a post on the subject )

 

 

</blockquote>
Couldn't agree more. The red light is so beautiful complimenting the sun sets. IIRC the warm up time is like 8-10 minutes, the longest of any gaseous discharge lamp. I love it! 

 

I encourage anyone to research the lumens per watt of LPS for LED.

 

LPS also cuts through fog better than LED.

 

I wish LPS caught on in the US the way it did in Europe.