Incandescent light bulb BAN goes into effect next week

[Chetlaham]

@tolivac: Remember Venture's formed arc tub pulse start metal halides? Those gave the best white light I've ever seen by far at exceptional lumens per what with great lumen maintenance. Like better than daylight. Color were edible, the air was like whine.

 

 

A lot of LEDs are over driven and get progressively dimmer as they age.

 

[Chetlaham]

Cleanup in Isle 19

Ooops- Meant to say *tube and *wine. Forgive the spelling- I'm awful at spelling words.   

 

 

Regarding LEDs I kind of have to agree with what someone called them over at a popular lighting forum "light emitting decorations" I think of that acronym every time I see LED lights and have him to thank in a good way. Don't get me wrong, LEDs have their place, but not all the LED lighting retrofits I've seen are to me love. 

 

For example,  a lot of the Cobra Heads around me have been replaced by LEDs that literally look like a sharp bullet of light coming from a central locus. Lots of pointy light around the fixture, yet ground and adjacent area coverage is really poor. The flat lens HPS were way better IMO.

 

Personally if it were me, I'd have street lighting at low pressure sodium. IIRC Advance Ballasts and Several lighting manufacturers offered a single coil reactive ballast that could drive a 35 or 55 watt HPS lamp  at 480 volts input. Nothing simpler or more elegant IMO.

 

 

 

[Chetlaham]

I did Remember Correctly!

Oh! Found it, my favorite ballast! Page 4-46 (165)

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cesco-content/unilog/Batch5/781087/116417-Catalog.pdf

 

Wiring diagram points to figure C, and "R-PFC" means reactive single coil choke ballast, power factor corrected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This elegant ballast lets you drive 35, 55 and 90 watt Low Pressure Sodium lamps without an igniter. Igniters are common on European SOX lamps and do fail. The 480 volt open circuit voltage strikes the arc, while the inductor then limits the current to a point where the arc voltage is dropped to a suitable level for warm up and normal operations. 

 

That means there is nothing to go wrong. No extra windings or igniters to fail like on HPS and Metal Halide.

 

480 volts is also a great voltage to run outdoor lighting circuits at- common on highways and bridges- most cobra heads on DOT roadways are fed at 480 volts line to line. Sadly because the open circuit voltage for common HPS and metal halides isn't 480, the need for complex regulation (trapazoid volt/current curves for HPS // peaked OCV for MH warm up), tight constant wattage limits and the need for a 2-4kv starting pulse leads to fixtures having an absolutely MASSIVE, HOT, Heavy,  multi winding multi tapped capacitor in series iron ballast with an igniter that fails in short order when the bulb starts cycling or gives out completely.

 

A choke ballast on the other hand has nothing that can fail. Can easily last 40-60 years. Bulb can be swapped out without having to worry if the ballast/igniter is good or will give out before the next re-lamping cycle. Its like having a preheat fluorescent tube but without the need for a starter. Instant start cold cathode corona discharge, done with a single core and coil.

Nothing in lighting technology comes closer to simplicity other than an incandescent bulb or a neon indicator in series with a resistor.  

 

[wayupnorth]

I know LED stop lights around here will not melt snow so drivers have to go cautiously, but can we get all LED bulbs at a low cost that we need now and NOT have to buy new fixtures.

 

[Chetlaham]

Yup. A lot of existing fluorescent, HID and Incandescent fixtures are now being retrofitted to LED. Ballast bypassed and the socket re-used, line voltage directly to the self ballasted LED corn cob.

 

 

Though, if it were me, parking lot lights, street lights, wall packs, posts, bollards, awning and most outdoor fixtures would be SOX Low Pressure Sodium. Monochromatic yellow can be so much fun

 

[cfz2882]

I have 3 18w* SOX lamps in my backyard-they were made in 1982-start out dim and reddish,warm up to the monochrome yellow after a few min.SOX and all the HID lamps are far superior to LED for pleasant,effective,non light polluting outdoor lighting-(more on this subject later when i get around to making a post on the subject )

 

[fisherpaykel]

Flat light from LED's

@mattl, I agree with your flat light comment, I succumbed to buying LED floodlights for my family room track lights and regret the flat light they produce. a couple/few of them have failed at shorter time than their supposed long life. Re street lighting it's as though the science of lighting engineering has gone out the window and the concept of parabolic reflectors dispersing light while minimizing direct glare is totally forgotten.

 

[mattl]

There are lots of focused narrow beam LEDs.  I have dozens around the house as up lights and in recessed cans.

 

[wayupnorth]

In a snowstorm, the LED traffic lights cover with snow and can not generate enough heat to melt them, causing a safety hazard.

 

[combo52]

LED traffic lights during snow storms

I’m sure this problem will be solved with a little bit of re-engineering and adding a little bit of electric heat. That’s thermostatically controlled to the traffic signals so they can warm up enough to take care of ice and snow.

This type of problem is easily solved. There’s no reason to use in efficient incandescent lightbulbs for this reason,when only necessary 20% of the time on probably 20% of the traffic signals in the US does not justify wasting all that energy not to go to LEDs.

John

 

[Chetlaham]

<blockquote>
have 3 18w* SOX lamps in my backyard-they were made in 1982-start out dim and reddish,warm up to the monochrome yellow after a few min.SOX and all the HID lamps are far superior to LED for pleasant,effective,non light polluting outdoor lighting-(more on this subject later when i get around to making a post on the subject )

 

 

</blockquote>
Couldn't agree more. The red light is so beautiful complimenting the sun sets. IIRC the warm up time is like 8-10 minutes, the longest of any gaseous discharge lamp. I love it! 

 

I encourage anyone to research the lumens per watt of LPS for LED.

 

LPS also cuts through fog better than LED.

 

I wish LPS caught on in the US the way it did in Europe.

 

[cfz2882]

Seems LPS was promoted some in the US early 1980s-the 3 '82 vintage fixtures I have are wallpacs made by Verd-a-ray with original Holland Philips-Norelco bulbs.A fourth 18w SOX fixture I have was made in 1999 and UK made Philips bulb.Europe seems to going to LED lately-a little cheaper to run possibly,but really ghastly performance and color-good that they usually dim out noticably after as few as 9 months Optics are usually really bad with the LED lamps too.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Interesting article comparing different light sources.

LED vs. Incandescent & Halogen

Knowing the difference between LEDs, incandescents, and halogens can help you make a decision on what's best for your application and budget. Learn more here!

www.superbrightleds.com

 

[bradfordwhite]

Those old HPS and other bulbs that need a transformer are kind of scary.

The transformer makes noise so right there that's a big no for me.
I have seen situations where the transformer literally leaked substance, probably some type of toxic oil.

And the bulbs are not stable. They will lose their intensity as they age.
As they age they are more likely to explode.
If they have unstable electric surges they can explode from over heating.
Plus, you have to keep track of how many hours the bulb has been in operation and religiously change them out before they go bad.
The large bulb size along with the transformer makes them a bulky choice.

And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves.

 

[tolivac]

Yes,have some of the Venture Pulse Start formed arc tube lamps in my collection.The ceramic arc tube lamps are better and more efficient.Plus even more stable.Other lamp makers have tried to duplicate the Venture design without success.Venture is going to LED now.Don't know if they still make the formed arc tube bulbs andd ballasts.

 

[Chetlaham]

Agnotology

<blockquote>
Those old HPS and other bulbs that need a transformer are kind of scary.

 

</blockquote>
Many of them get away with a simple reactor. No transformer needed.

<blockquote>

The transformer makes noise so right there that's a big no for me.

 

</blockquote>
Rarely audible when of quality make and installed correctly in the fixture. 

 

 

<blockquote>

I have seen situations where the transformer literally leaked substance, probably some type of toxic oil.

 

</blockquote>
That would be a potted ballast typical of fluorescent troffers. Ballasts in outdoor HID fixtures are almost always core and coil. Iron with a coil wrapped around it has nothing to leak.

 

<blockquote>

And the bulbs are not stable. They will lose their intensity as they age.

 

</blockquote>
HPS and LPS has some of the best lumen maintenance of any light source. Over driven LEDs have some of the worst lumen maintenance. 

<blockquote>

As they age they are more likely to explode.

 

 

</blockquote>
Only applies to type E quartz Metal Halide lamps. HID and LPS rarely if ever explode.

 

<blockquote>
 


If they have unstable electric surges they can explode from over heating.

 

 

</blockquote>
An 80 watt mercury vapor lamp can tolerate a 5,000 watt surge. The voltage to drive that level of current through an inductive ballast would long ago fry the electronics in a LED driver.

 



<blockquote>

Plus, you have to keep track of how many hours the bulb has been in operation and religiously change them out before they go bad.


 

</blockquote>
Much the opposite. HPS and LPS simply stop emitting light when their lumen output drops below 80%.

 

LED on the other hand tends to get dimmer and dimmer beyond their rated useful life.  

 

 

<blockquote>
The large bulb size along with the transformer makes them a bulky choice.

</blockquote>
 

Not really a concern until you get into high wattage LPS over 90 watts.


           And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves.

 

 

No such requirement exists for screw in HID lamps. 

 

 

Tell me you don't understand HID technology without telling me you don't understand HID technology.

 

Tell me you're citing LED agnotology without telling me you're citing LED agnotology.

 

Most everything you read online comparing LED to every other lighting technology is mendacious propaganda propped up by blatantly incorrect information.

 

[this post was last edited: 8/5/2023-05:37]

 

[tolivac]

Most high wattage HPS,mercury,MH use actual transformers-the regulation is better and they are more efficient.Reactor ballasts are common for lamps running on 277 or 480V.Ballasts today are not oil filled-they are often potted in non flammable epoxy that is heat conductive.
Ceramic Metal Halides are another that can explode or rupture at EOL-but is extrremely rre-these also run off electronic square ballasts run at low frequency-120Hz.No flicker!I run CMH at home! Love their light-LED life can be unpredictable esp when the LED elements are driven hard to get quality light.This also can make their driver-ballasst run hot.

 

[Chetlaham]

<blockquote>
Reactor ballasts are common for lamps running on 277 or 480V.

 

 

</blockquote>
Yup! But don't forget residential street lighting. 35-150 watt HPS lamps are typically 120 volt reactor driven.


 

 

I've always admired the size and cost difference between reactors and other types.

 

 

100 watt HPS Reactor ballast in Cobra:

 

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

 

vs

 

 

100 watt HPS Multi Tap CWA ballast in a Cobra:

 

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

 

 

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

“And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves“

What you are thinking about is most “high temperature bulbs” Where there is not a protective glass around the glass that heats up] that you do have to make sure it is really clean as the oil can sometimes cause contamination on the glass and when that is heated I’ve heard that IT can actually crack it, It’s basically a super powered version of the normal bulb which gets much hotter, generally that style of bulb just gave me cash such as metal halide or halogen, generally large metal halide bulbs can be fine if they are the kind that has a white phosphorus coating, The one that looks like an egg with a screw on the top

 

[bradfordwhite]

It's no surprise

Mercury Vapor bulbs are set to be eliminated per 2005 EPA rules change. I didn't know this but considering they use MERCURY, OMG!

And the transformers making noise- whether it's flourescent or these gased up bulbs, the noise is nearly always present. I mean it's been referenced in film numerous times.

One place I rented from had replaced all their street lights with LED bulbs that were clear, bright, came on instantly and made no noise....except for one lamp. I don't know why they missed that one but It flickered, the light was dull, and the noise it made. terrible.

My Dad had a 120' x 70' utility shed built years ago and given that he sold wholesale electric lighting, poles, and supplies to municipalities and contractors, he of course found it necessary to put in six of those heavy "industrial strength" type fixtures. When ever you'd turn the lights on in there it was accompanied by a slow start up to get full light and of course that hum noise.

Look at the size of that thing and that ballast. It needs to be hung hung with heavy chain because its heavy.

Mercury Vapor vs. LED

In Mercury Vapor vs. LED our experts here at Action Services Group help to define why it may be time for you to retrofit to LED lighting

actionservicesgroup.com