Is There Any Such Thing as a Reliable FL?

[rp2813]

After reading reviews on line, it seems there's no such thing as a reliable front loading machine with a capacity of over 3.5 cu ft. In some cases (like Frigidaire made models) even small machines don't seem to last more than a few years. I'd like to buy a FL that will handle my king size comforter but if you go large they are all electronic controls that have a tendency to fail and/or frustrate. What's a guy to do if he wants a FL that's not going to give him problems right out of the gate? If I wait I feel quality will only deteriorate more. Anyone out there want to share your views on this?

Ralph

 

[toggleswitch]

I say get a Maytag T/L-er of the Dependable Care variety while you still can.

(ducks and runs)

 

[rp2813]

You know Togs, after all I've read on the FL's and the horror stories of early failure and going a week or more waiting for repairs or parts, my long stroke Amana is looking like a keeper for the time being. It just got a new belt (it's 4th since new in '97) so it's good for at least a couple more years. I saw the deal this week on the HE2's and thought I'd go for it but have really cooled off on that now.

Were the old Westy Laundromats problem prone? They seem like such simple systems that would run forever. What has happened to Whirlpool that they turn out such unreliable machines anymore? You pay $800 for a machine, it has a serious problem after a couple of years and it's basically totaled. Something is seriously wrong with that situation.

 

[hreodbeorht]

Just buy a Whirlpool Duet and be done with it

The one thing that discourages me from buying a front loader is that I don't want to wait an hour for the clothes to move back and forth in a drum that's filled with a cup of water. I want a front loader that will do a load in the same time as a top loader with the water level sloshing halfway up from the bottom of the door. Yeah! I've been very lucky to get 16 years on the current Kitchen Aid TL, not sure I'd get the same amount of service with a FL.

 

[gadgetgary]

I never realized....

How fast the TL is as opposed to the FL. I have had my Maytag FL since 1997(replacing a GE FFlo). I forgot how much faster the cycle is completed with my new Maytag TL DC. But I guess all is relative. Since the FL takes a bit longer, I guess the dry time is reduced because of the high speed spin. And since the TL takes less time to complete the cycle, I would imagine that the extra time would me made up in the dry cycle.

I have to agree with the 'sloshing' and amount of water. But, everything comes out great with the FL. Absolutely no complaints. You use less soap and less water.

 

[golittlesport]

Electrolux

From my personal experience, I think the Frigidaire FL's are pretty dependable...and they are the least expensive. My first "Frigmore" gave me 7 years of heavy and perfect service and now lives in an apt filled with college boys (mis)using it - and it's still running great. Remember, people tend to post when they are unhappy with something. I think for every post of Frigidaire bearing problems (many of which were probably caused by operator error - oversudsing and excess bleach) there are a thousand machines chugging along fine. It takes only 5 to 10 minutes longer than a top loader...and if you use an extra rinse on the TL, the FL will finish first!

 

[toggleswitch]

I'm not so sure it matters which one finishes first, as long as the job gets done to everyone's satifaction.

 

[gadgetgary]

As long as the job gets done to everyone's satifaction.

Well stated Steve.

Thank you~!

 

[brisnat81]

I'm a Miele Advocate

Hi Guys,

I will attest to the reliability of Miele, I have 3 examples, 1 from 1978, one from 1987 and one from 2006.

The quality of the machines hasn't changed at all during that time, and they've been designed to be easier and easier to service. These days, the front of the machine swings open and you can unbolt the whole cabinet from the chassis, whereas on the 78 model, you had a portal on the back, and access from the top and bottom.

It takes 56 minutes for me to do a 60degC cottons wash with an extra rinse, with the time it takes my TL to fill with our average water pressure they come out about the same. The advantage is, that my clothes dont wear as fast, and I get rid of stains with no pre-treating or bleach. At the dryer end, in my 2006 Miele Condensor dryer, a load from the the Miele drys in about 50minutes and fills the condensate container 1/3 of the way. The same load from a TL machine takes 2 hours and I had to empty the condensate container during the cycle. From Memory I think the condensate container is about 4L or approx 1 Gal

If you're willing to pay for quality I beleive its available. I do beleive in Mieles 10,000 hour (20 Year guarentee). If you're not prepared to pay for quality, buy a domestic brand and replace it every 5-7 years. You will find that most TL are lucky to live that long as well any more.

Just my view,

Regards

Nathan

 

[tumbler]

Reliable f/l's

I'm not sure what reviews rp2813 has been reading, but I've seen little or nothing in the way of complaints about the Whirlpool Duet. I bought one, (and matching dryer) and have nothing but praise for it. They've been on the market since '99 or '00, and have an excellent reliability record. Someone here recently posted his experience with a Duet used in a hospital janitor's facility, washing string-mop heads 24/7 for four years; other than a drain pump failure caused by disloged mop strings, he says it's been flawless. I'm not sure where people get the idea that the Duet uses "a cup" of water; the drum is tilted slightly towards the back, so during the normal and heavy duty cycles, water is not visible in the window (they fill up into the window on the delicate cycles). Cycle times are sometimes longer on the "whiter whites" and sanitary cycles-this depends on your water heater setting. If it's too low, the washer's heater takes up the slack and this adds time to these cycles. An unbalanced load can also add to the time. Most of the time, the run time is not much longer than a top loader. Add to that the greatly reduced water and energy consumption, and we have a winner. Bottom line-even my greasiest, filthiest work clothes come out clean, and my good stuff isn't beaten to death by an agitator. The Frigidaires do have bearing and shaft-seal issues. I had one, and personally know four others who had these machines. three of the five experienced bearing failures. Use of non-HE detergents may have caused oversudsing and contributed to the problem, but if the machines had been built properly to begin with, they wouldn't have failed. I've never heard of a Duet HT with this problem, and I'm sure there are Duet owners who have used the wrong detergent. Note-if you oversuds a Duet, it goes into its "Suds" routine to get rid of them, and that can add 30 minutes to the cycle time. Use HE detergent, and you won't have this problem.

 

[rp2813]

Sad but true commentary about the lifespan of contemporary washers.

Rich, I kind of was thinking the same thing, that people who are unhappy are more likely to say so. I was also thinking that misuse was a factor. I'm getting so much pressure from my partner to go for the HE2 pair (which are Duet knockoffs--Sport, I think but slightly larger capacity) now that I advised him that they appeared to be a good deal, although adding pedestals does increase the cost by almost $400 -- for nothing but a hollow shell (no storage) under each machine. That seems excessive on Sears' part. I may cave in and keep my fingers crossed that following instructions properly is key. On the other hand, if I go home tonight and say nothing I'll have a pocket veto on this. But then I'll have to deal with pouting and complaining that will drive me nuts every time he goes to use the current washer. I live with a 57 year old child, you see. For my peace of mind I might just go through with this and then when something goes wrong I'll just let him handle it--and pay for the repairs out of his own account!

No way I can afford a Miele. Wish I could.

Thanks for the input everybody.

 

[neptunebob]

Maybe your partner doesn't like the "look" of

But I still recommend you get one, that is the full size Duet. The Duet sport is a smaller version and the pedestals for them sound like a rip off. As for him complaining and pouting, tell him that maybe if he feels that grouchy that NetptuneBob says that he probably needs more fiber.

Have you looked at the Chinese GE washers at Sam's Club? I don't hear bad things about them and they could be a compromise and they don't cost as much as a Duet. Best of all, while you are there you can also buy a club size Metamucil.

 

[revvinkevin]

.....as long as the job gets done to everyone's satifact

Yes I agree.

I have a 10 year old Fridigaire FL set that has been washing 4-5 loads a week since new! We have not had a single problem with them during their entire life with us.

Granted when doing very heavy loads (i.e all towels) the washer drive belt does "chatter" a bit while washing, but this has not been, nor lead to any problems.

I would really like to see the wash cycle (mechanical timer) programmed a little different, but that is just my preference. But again, zero problems.

=============

Addressing "Hreodbeorht's" concern about "...a drum that's filled with a cup of water." Has anyone considered modifying their FL washer to achieve a higher water lever? At least on mine it would be pretty easy to do!

I modified my washer to tumble as it filled w/water. Previously (when original) the drum would just "sit there" until the "proper water level" was reached, then would it tumble. The dry cloths soak up the water, but it would not always refill to the "proper level". Now it's no problem and I am a happy camper.

 

[rp2813]

Tumbler and NeptuneBob, I definitely have noticed the lack of complaints about the Duets. Seems strange that the Kenmores that are supposedly the same machines are having so many issues. I've decided to hold off and pursue a Duet pair when I see a deal. Sears is too much of a rip-off with the pedestals and without them the doors are a little too low. My partner has a bad back and shouldn't be stooping.

These machines will be in the garage so there's no issue with how they look. My issue is that the washer's door isn't reversible. Our configuration requires the washer to be on the right, and yet the door on it will only swing left. So we either deal with it or get longer supply hoses and switch the machines around.

Thanks for all the comments here guys. It makes me feel better to see people who know how to use a washer properly are not having any problems with front loaders. I see Lowe's has Whirlpools at 10% off through Monday. Once I saw where they were throwing in the pedestals free. Might wait/hope for that to come back around and go for it.

I have heard about the Chinese GE's being all Whirlpool parts but just don't want to feed that made-in-China monster.

As for more fiber, Bob, my partner is enough to clean up after already!

Ralph

 

[revvinkevin]

Ralph,

I also suggest you just go with the Duets. I suggested my mother buy one to replace here aging (and then troublesome) late 70's Maytag 2 years ago. She has been very happy wih it and has had no problems.

As for washer location... yes I suggest you "bite the bullet" and just get longer hoses for the washer so the door swing will be correct.

Kevin

 

[oxydolfan1]

I am seeing and hearing that the Whirlpool Duets, not the Duet Sports, are yielding excellent washing results and few problems.

I too cannot understand why, if Bauknecht is producing the Kenmore front-load machines as well as Whirlpool's Duet, there would be such disparity between the reliability rates....could it be that Sears enjoys a higher market share because the distribution and availability of the Kenmores is better than Whirlpool's network?

There is scarce data regarding the Maytag Epic and almost none at all regarding the KitchenAid Ensembles, all manufacturered by Bauknecht in Germany as well.

RP, I'm undergoing a similar quandary (although my purchase is not of any particular urgency).

I feel as though I dodged a potential bullet regarding the HE2 promotion at Sears. It is important to me that I make the wisest possible choice, because finances are somewhat strained at any rate, and I'm looking to avoid repair annoyances, days off, and general stress as well.

There is a considerable price difference between the HE2 and HE3 machines, and it's not money I'd toss aside willingly, since I really don't require the extra features of the HE3 anyway.

 

[rp2813]

I called Lowes and talked with a great girl who was very informative. We talked Whirlpool vs Kenmore vs Maytag. I'm going to check out the Duet model GHW9300PW tomorrow and matching gas dryer. Supposedly it's being discontinued and there aren't many left in stock. It looks like the first style Duet to me--the "gay" looking one but hey, mine is a gay household anyway. I like the control knob better and it's got a clear window!!! The price is a few dollars more than Sears wants for their smaller HE2. This Duet is 3.8 cu ft compared to the HE2's 3.5. and the dryer is bigger too. Also the washer has a built in water heater, something the basic HE2 doesn't. Lowes will rebate 100% of the delivery charge and offers an extended warranty, $139 for 5 years and it covers both machines. Between that, the 10% off, and rebates from my power and water companies this is looking like the way to go. Forgot to ask pedestal price but I know it's going to be less than Sears.

Thanks Scott and Kevin, and yes, I'm going for the longer hoses. . . OK everybody, remember we have a 12-year old in our midst here!

 

[panthera]

Bauknecht is Whirlpool

And, sadly, not the best part of them, either. Look, I am "German", says so right here on my passport. But I was born in Colorado.
Until Whirlpool bought them, Bauknecht was known for good design and ergonomics, but were never, shall we say, the "quality leader" in the German market.
I worked with their sales department and marketing for a few years as a contractor. Yes, quality is improving. But you must not compare them to Miele. Or even LG.
The Frigimores have three operator caused problems and went through a period about 99-00 when some idiot designed in bad bearings.
Models before or after that era are not inherently bad.
The bearing seal is not as tough as it should be. BUT: The spider cracking problem and the bearing failure problem are both tied to the same thing: These machines were originally built for the low-sudsing, no-chlorine bleach European (not talking UK so please don't flame me) market.
If you use HE detergent and don't use Chlorine bleach, they last forever. Too many suds and the bearing will fail. Too much alkalinity and the spider will corrode. The third problem is cultural. Here in Europe, we always leave the tub door open a crack and give the rubber boot a quick wipe. Since stuff is washed in very cold water in the US (our "warm" is 145°F) and folks tend to close the door you quickly get a mold and slime problem. Just run a hot load once a month, add some citric acid to it or use oxygen bleach regularly. Leave the door open, wipe the lip at the front dry (yes, check the drum before you wash, I read about the poor wee kitten) and your FL will run just fine.
The spider is made of aluminum alloy...the tub is stainless steel...there is a reason they put bits of aluminum in Drano...
If if may make a suggesstion. Living with dogs and cats, I have washed a lot of comforters over the years. Yeah, my 7kg LG can do it. But the best results and least wear on such monster loads is at a well run coin laundry. I have also learned to use "duvet covers" on my comforters - those can be washed anywhere and it cuts down on the cat hair over time.
I have timed my mom's 1200rpm Frigimore against her "Frigidaire TL" at 400rpm (typical WW junk). Sure, the TL washed faster. But add in drying time (not to mention the detergent residue you have without an extra rinse or two) and the FL is only 10-15 minutes slower. But cleaner! Less residue! So we need to stop comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[panthera]

Bauknecht is Whirlpool

And, sadly, not the best part of them, either. Look, I am "German", says so right here on my passport. But I was born in Colorado.
Until Whirlpool bought them, Bauknecht was known for good design and ergonomics, but were never, shall we say, the "quality leader" in the German market.
I worked with their sales department and marketing for a few years as a contractor. Yes, quality is improving. But you must not compare them to Miele. Or even LG.
The Frigimores have three operator caused problems and went through a period about 99-00 when some idiot designed in bad bearings.
Models before or after that era are not inherently bad.
The bearing seal is not as tough as it should be. BUT: The spider cracking problem and the bearing failure problem are both tied to the same thing: These machines were originally built for the low-sudsing, no-chlorine bleach European (not talking UK so please don't flame me) market.
If you use HE detergent and don't use Chlorine bleach, they last forever. Too many suds and the bearing will fail. Too much alkalinity and the spider will corrode. The third problem is cultural. Here in Europe, we always leave the tub door open a crack and give the rubber boot a quick wipe. Since stuff is washed in very cold water in the US (our "warm" is 145°F) and folks tend to close the door you quickly get a mold and slime problem. Just run a hot load once a month, add some citric acid to it or use oxygen bleach regularly. Leave the door open, wipe the lip at the front dry (yes, check the drum before you wash, I read about the poor wee kitten) and your FL will run just fine.
The spider is made of aluminum alloy...the tub is stainless steel...there is a reason they put bits of aluminum in Drano...
If if may make a suggesstion. Living with dogs and cats, I have washed a lot of comforters over the years. Yeah, my 7kg LG can do it. But the best results and least wear on such monster loads is at a well run coin laundry. I have also learned to use "duvet covers" on my comforters - those can be washed anywhere and it cuts down on the cat hair over time.
I have timed my mom's 1200rpm Frigimore against her "Frigidaire TL" at 400rpm (typical WW junk). Sure, the TL washed faster. But add in drying time (not to mention the detergent residue you have without an extra rinse or two) and the FL is only 10-15 minutes slower. But cleaner! Less residue! So we need to stop comparing apples and oranges here.