persil

[launderess]

Can't see Henkel Germany going toe to toe with P&G with another top shelf laundry detergent for the USA market. Tide is having its own problems of late with sales and it is not just due to the past recession.

When forced either by economic circumstances or whatever reasons to go from Tide to other brands many consumers found little difference. Thus when things returned to normal they stuck with whatever new products. Tide liquid detergents are on sale somewhere in my NYC area every week. If not Tide then other P&G laundry products.

P&G invests *huge* R&D developing Tide to suit a variety of local laundry conditions from water to soils all across the USA. It has locked down the patents for activated oxygen bleaching systems going back to the days of Biz and Oxydol which later went into Tide With Bleach.

The Dial Corporation is more known for value brand detergents (Purex, Trend, etc...), and without a detergent for whites with a bleaching system those "perls" are going to be eaten alive by P&G/Tide.

Henkel Germany hasn't produced high dilution detergents for ages. In order to compete in the American market these new Persil offerings will have to deal with washing machines that range from 24" to large top loading but still "HE". The amount of water these machines use as well as how they wash vary.

Henkel/Germany IIRC also ceased production of liquid detergents in favor of gels. So why is Dial selling a liquid product which means it contains more water?

 

[roscoe62]

@launderess

Very good question considering the price is close to Tide, as mentioned earlier in this thread, unless Dial is trying to put it to P&G and get a bigger piece of the market,which may be why there is another new Tide He "Turbo" on the market claiming clean rinsing.
I'm very interested in seeing how both these products will perform over time to make comparisons.

 

[launderess]

Am with others who say Henkel is going after the "niche" market of North Americans that know and trust Persil. By cutting out the middleman (Miele North America) and use their subsidiary (The Dial Corporation) certain costs can be kept down.

Truth will come out when reviews of results come in. Will be very interested with what various Germans and other Europeans living in the USA that know Persil have to say.

Being as all this may as often mentioned by our European members Persil/Henkel isn't always top dog laundry detergent. In many markets Ariel (from P&G) beats Persil and or equals results.

Americans got turned onto Persil when Miele reached these shores and there weren't other options available.

Looked around the Persil Mexico site and while there packaging and so forth look more like German offerings, still cannot find out what is in the stuff.
http://www.persil.com.mx/es.cky.html

 

[launderess]

Weekly Sale Circular From Wally World

Has Persil on offer for $9.97

Warning Wally's website is infested with cookie and zip code requests. What you may end up seeing will reflect where you live. Thus sale circular maybe different for your local Wally World. You can mess them about by using another Zip Code

http://weeklyads.walmart.com/flyers...150?category=Grocery,+Household+&+Pets&type=2

 

[mrboilwash]

Interesting to see a new product getting bashed by so many who haven`t even tried it.

If it`s the same or at least similar to the stuff we get in Germany, I think one day it might become a serious competitor to Tide.
It`s certainly not going to be easy for a newcomer to compete with a strong brand like Tide that has been around for decades in the US.

Personally I find German liquid Persil to be an awesome perfomer, but the Duo Caps don`t do it for me, even if I use two for a normal load. They are very low sudsing (less than Megaperls or liquid Persil), maybe they work better in soft water, I found them very disappointing despite the big brand name.

@ Laundress
"Henkel/Germany IIRC also ceased production of liquid detergents in favor of gels. So why is Dial selling a liquid product which means it contains more water?"

You`re so knowledgeable about detergents, I can`t believe you think thinner always means watered down.
Years ago liquid Persil had indeed a thicker gel like texture marketed for better pretreating stains and the usual thicker means more cleaning ingredients bulls**t.
Nowadays the name "Persil Gel" still remained, but the texture is back to a normal liquid. Whith a thinner produkt a dosing ball can be used as an option, not a must.
Viscosity of a product has nothing to do with the concentation of cleaning agents in a liquid detergent, shampoo or whatever ! In most cases it`s only the presence or absence of gelling agents, thickeners, salts and so on.

 

[liamy1]

Laundress

You're right there, in the UK, persil was alway considered the best, and still is Britains best selling laundry detergent. However, over the last few years, in various consumer report organisation tests, and from field engineers Ariel is considered the best performing detergent.

And now, Aldi's Almat brand has beat even Ariel in the Which (consumer reports) testing.

 

[jerrod6]

Once in a while I will check out the Henkel North America web site just to see what's there. From that you can click on their brands, and this is how I found more information about the Dial brand of Purex. You click on the brand name and the brand web site is displayed.

Just checked out the site and the name Persil is listed along with the brands. No web site yet but the brand name is there. Pril is also displayed and I don't remember that either.

So I am starting to think this is Persil in the USA is the real deal, and I am certainly interested.

I know that in some countries the Persil for colors contain OBAs, so not sure what will happen here and I prefer not to have it on my dark colors - certainly not on black.

I see the bottle says it can be used in all types of machines. This is similar to what Purex is doing with their detergents. I think you use more for top loaders, but you are using the same product for both. I wonder about this and perhaps they have come upon some technique that works with large amounts of water as well as small but years ago didn't we use one detergent for both top and front loaders?

I took a look at my recent bottle of Persil Color Gel. It is a smaller version of the bottle that was displayed above. True it is no longer a gel but more like pouring whipping cream or syrup. I actually like this because in the cold weather the gel would be almost impossible to get out of the bottle - that and if you used a cold water wash it was hard to get it to flush out of the detergent dispenser.

Still for whites I want me some oxygen bleach.

Can't wait to give these a try - even though I certainly do not need anymore detergent products in the laundry area.

 

[launderess]

You`re so knowledgeable about detergents, I can`t believe you think thinner always means watered down.
Years ago liquid Persil had indeed a thicker gel like texture marketed for better pretreating stains and the usual thicker means more cleaning ingredients bulls**t.
Nowadays the name "Persil Gel" still remained, but the texture is back to a normal liquid. Whith a thinner produkt a dosing ball can be used as an option, not a must. "

Given Persil has made "sustainability" and so forth agreements with Walmart am was surprised it went with liquid instead of gel as one most certainly has more water than the other.

My recently purchased bottle of Persil Gel for Colors is slightly thicker than Tide liquid detergent but not as viscous as Ariel Excel Gel.

No one is "bashing" anything, merely trying to determine what sort of product Dial is marketing. Henkel can slap their "Persil" brand onto anything but that does not equal whatever is inside will behave in the same manner as German Persil.

 

[nmassman44]

Well I found the Persil liquid and MegaPearls at Walmart in Salem Ma....the rep from Henkels was there and spoke to him and it's the same formula as the Persil from Germany. Same thing! There is going to be a $2 coupon in the flyer for Walmart for it. I asked about the PowerCapas and they don't have them yet. But I did pick these tow up. I did smell the Fresh scent liquid and it's rather nice smelling. I did pick up the MegaPearls and the Original scent liquid.

 

[nmassman44]

The other thing he told me was the fact that Miele will no longer be the sole importer of Persil. The contract ended and Henkel did not renew according to rep. That's why it's here now. They kept it under wraps so they can launch the line here in North America.

 

[aamassther]

"No one is "bashing" anything, merely trying to determine what sort of product Dial is marketing. Henkel can slap their "Persil" brand onto anything but that does not equal whatever is inside will behave in the same manner as German Persil."

That was my point as well. US companies have a history of exploiting well respected names while cheapening a product. Ex. PG with their US Ariel formula that was dreadful, poor Maytag, WCI and Kohlberg's purchase of Singer, Pfaff, Husqvarna Viking. Coupled with purex, a budget brand, makes me suspicious.

Nmassman, thanks for the follow up. I hope your info from the rep is more accurate than mine from the CS rep. Please let us know your results!

 

[mrboilwash]

"...as one most certainly has more water than the other&

Just think of Unilever Persil Small And Mighty compared to Ariel Excel Gel.

Both products equally have listed 15-30% Anionic surfactants, 5-15% Nonionic Surfactants and Soap, < 5% Phosphonates

Both products require approximately a 35 ml (35 vs.37ml) dose for a standard load.

One is a thick gel and the other one has a watery texture, which can be easily flushed down the detergent dispenser.
I have my serious doubts about if one had more water than the other.

Of course some surfactants have a paste like texture at very high concentrations, but we are still miles away to see such high concentrations (which might be even dangerous) in laundry detergents for residential use.

 

[roscoe62]

checked online

with a Persil dealer here in Canada and there is only one Persil available now in the universal powder and now have other brands like MIR gels, Super Croix detergent and Minidou softener ,when there was always a fair amount of choices with mega pearls and gels, these newer liquid detergents I'm unfamiliar.

 

[jerrod6]

Nmassman

Ok start doing laundry already! LOL we are a crazy bunch!

Let us know how you think the white Perls work.

I am unsure if it is meant that we use the liquid on colors, but I have a feeling that is what is intended even though it doesn't say so. The Perls says it's for whites. Given washers sold in the USA today don't even use 98F for hot water, I can see that the liquid may work well on colors and then if people want to wash whites and get them white they will use the Whitest White cycle which is a temp over 120F or a bit more. Sanitize is around 167F so perhaps this white perls will be just fine for the majority of the NA laundry market.

I don't know how Persil works in countries outside of Germany or what is in the formula but you would have to think that it would have to be made to adjust somewhat to the way people do laundry in those countries. I mean does the German Persil work as is in Mexico?

It wouldn't make business sense to enter a market and expect that market to operate the way your home market does. The first thing to do is find out the market conditions in this case the laundry habits. Henkel has done this by buying Dial. Yes the label says a Henkel company but this is legal speak. The best financial way for a company to operate in a foreign company is to become part of that country's legal system and that is what Dial is to Henkel a subsidiary. Dail is here but the shots are being called from the parent company.

Next look at the conditions. No washer here is using anything near a boil wash that is common in EU in fact no washer is even using what anyone here would consider HOT water unless it is sanitize or whites whites. No one in the majority NA market cares about the use of OBAs...they don't care...If they did no one would be buying Tide or anything else and using it on colors, and companies would not have added it to even Cheer with darks. So there is that. Many people are not even using a detergent with Oxygen bleach...I mean what for? ..we have chlorine bleach falling off the shelves and into the isles.

The majority is not going to buy a separate detergent just to wash colors. Never mind that I use more of this than detergent for whites....folks aren't used to this and will bulk at the suggestion.

So I am ready to see what the USA Persil will bring with the knowledge that it could be different. In the end it doesn't matter because in the end this going to be PERSIL we will have.

Nmassman - you got that laundry load finished yet?

 

[nmassman44]

Nope not doing laundry until tomorrow, as tempting as it is, but I know how this is going to perform. The liquid is alot like the gel that Persil imported here so my thinking is that they dont want to call it a gel quite yet. One thing though, the MegaPearls powder is going to have a problem with the container...I can see that already...the powder doesnt "drain back" into the bottle and gets hung up on the ledge area...making it harder to twist the cap on...I took the pour insert out already.
The powder says its good for colors as well but I am going to both thru the paces with both my Frigidaire built front loader and the SQ washer. I do like the scent of both so we will see how it carries over to the dryers.
Now if Henkel was smart they would bring over Somat for the dishwashers....my Miele dishwasher loves the stuff...

 

[supersuds]

I like the Somat, too, however...If they did bring it out over here, it wouldn't have phosphates, so would definitely not be the same as the European versions. I understand Persil has not had phosphates for a long time, though.

 

[maytagbear]

Other retailers?

So far, only Wal*Mart has been mentioned....I am wondering if anyone has seen Persil sold elsewhere, like Target? I will shop at Wal*Mart, but I prefer to shop elsewhere.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[logixx]

I'll hild my breath until someone posts the exact ingredients list. Even Persil in Germany comes in different formulations. The regular blue gel has the full formula, while the lavender scented one lacks like half of the enzymes. You can't tell the difference unless you go online and pull up the ingredients list. In the most recent test by our consumer magazine, Persil Universal Megaperls was the top rated detergent - only outdone by Ariel due to its superior stain removal.

For now, persil.us redirects me to Henkel's North American website.

 

[launderess]

Purchased a bottle of the color gel by Persil several months back and cannot say am truly 100% a fan.

While it cleans well enough and is gentle on colours the whiff is a bit much IMHO. Worse whatever Henkel uses as a fixative to give the fragrance staying power, well does. Noticed that touching laundry when damp the scent came off one one's hands, ironing board, etc... In fact went back to the ironing board a week after doing some shirts laundered in Persil color gel and it still reeked.

Happily found several boxes of Persil Mega-Perls for colours at a good price so am sorted for the duration.

The Laundry Room over at Garden Web has picked up the scent, so that is them for you. Sources there echo same; Miele no longer sole importer of Henkel laundry products, same versions as from Europe....

It is odd that Henkel released Persil in Mexico some time ago it seems and yet still no complete ingredient list on that website. Henkel's annual 2013 shareholder report makes no mention of either Mexico, Canada or USA Persil in particular beyond the standard "seeking to expand in North American markets"....

Did find something from Henkel's CEO saying recently the company wished to increase its laundry market share from about 18% to around 23% to compete better with P&G. Studies have been done on pricing in America as well as consumer behavior. Henkel also sent a team to Silicon Alley to conduct research as well.

Still do not understand the purpose of leaving an activated bleaching system out of those Persil "perls". Can see the liquids/gels going up against Tide, but again various Tide powders with bleach (oxygen) will eat that competition alive.

Of course it could be that Henkel decided "if you cannot beat them, join them" and bowed to the American love affair with chlorine bleaches. That or we will soon see some sort of "pod" or other delivery system for oxygen bleach sold separately.

Regarding high-froth Henkel detergent it seems versions of Persil are sold in that format. Saw one version for Saudi Arabia where IIRC top loading, hand washing and even wringer washers are popular. The later due to water being a hot commodity wash and or rinse waters can be reused which helps stretch the stuff I suppose.

Tide liquid is also on sale at Wally World for near the same price as Persil "Pro-Clean". According to Walmart circulars one has seen this sale price is only good through 7 March. If true wonder what will be the normal price? Also sticking strictly to Walmart (if that is the plan) won't do much to compete against Tide. We do not have Wally Worlds in NYC, but they are in nearby areas such as New Jersey.

 

[neptuneguy27]

Purchased

So I went to Walmart today and picked up two bottles of Persil; one liquid(gel) and the other Megaperls. I have washed two loads in the liquid and can safely say this stuff is the real deal. Smell is the same, consistency is the same, sudsing the same, as well as the clear rinsing. I'll be running a load of white towels with the perls shortly and I'll report back on its whitening ability. But even the perls smell exactly like Universal Persil though the blue speckles are a lighter shade of blue than usual.

This does look promising. I used to be a faithful user of Persil for years but the cost just became prohibitive. I am glad to see it finally on these shores in mass distribution...I just hope it doesn't get yanked off the market like every other product I like!

Chris