Thanks Heather.. you have that nice reddish brick two storey house don't you..from the pics quite awhile back.
Reality check again please: Your home heating costs
- Thread starter petek
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Yep.....
We sold our 1400 sq ft ranch house in the country on 1 acre and had enough money to get into this one easily. Prices are going up like crazy in my county. In fact, Kendall county is the second or third fastest growing country in the US.
We sold our 1400 sq ft ranch house in the country on 1 acre and had enough money to get into this one easily. Prices are going up like crazy in my county. In fact, Kendall county is the second or third fastest growing country in the US.
Petek
That's a great system you have there, it only needs a few tweaks around the house I think.
I have a Weil-Mclain, steam boiler with cast iron radiation. The best heat unless you can afford radiant floor!!
It will probably cost you about $1/month to keep the pilot lit on the boiler so take that off your calculation.
The worst offenders are that small draft you mentioned around the window, over hours that adds up to quite alot of heat loss. Do you have any window AC's left installed?
The next worst is the no automatic damper on the boiler flue, I bet your heat guy could install that no problem, it will keep your boiler hot between cycles.
Ever take your clothes out of your vented dryer in january and they are freezing cold after just being dried?? Now you see what an auto damper will do for your boiler.
Next biggest heat loss are those old windows and any crack you may have in the foundation. Do you have mice in the house? if so then you have heat going out cracks in the foundation--quickly!
It took me five years to replace all my windows in this house, 22 of them! I could only afford 5 a year, but when I got the last window in THEN i saw the annual bill drop from $1700.00 to $1400.00!!!
I have a 100 year old Victorian and it had the old lead weights in tracks beside the windows to raise and lower the sashes. Those tracks were a heating loss nightmare. You get those filled with insulation you'll see a big jump in savings.
I am surprised in Canada on the prarie that you only have scant 8" insulation in the house, I thought building codes were stricter up there, they are in Ontario I know.
Get that Pink Panther up there working!
cheers
jon & al
That's a great system you have there, it only needs a few tweaks around the house I think.
I have a Weil-Mclain, steam boiler with cast iron radiation. The best heat unless you can afford radiant floor!!
It will probably cost you about $1/month to keep the pilot lit on the boiler so take that off your calculation.
The worst offenders are that small draft you mentioned around the window, over hours that adds up to quite alot of heat loss. Do you have any window AC's left installed?
The next worst is the no automatic damper on the boiler flue, I bet your heat guy could install that no problem, it will keep your boiler hot between cycles.
Ever take your clothes out of your vented dryer in january and they are freezing cold after just being dried?? Now you see what an auto damper will do for your boiler.
Next biggest heat loss are those old windows and any crack you may have in the foundation. Do you have mice in the house? if so then you have heat going out cracks in the foundation--quickly!
It took me five years to replace all my windows in this house, 22 of them! I could only afford 5 a year, but when I got the last window in THEN i saw the annual bill drop from $1700.00 to $1400.00!!!
I have a 100 year old Victorian and it had the old lead weights in tracks beside the windows to raise and lower the sashes. Those tracks were a heating loss nightmare. You get those filled with insulation you'll see a big jump in savings.
I am surprised in Canada on the prarie that you only have scant 8" insulation in the house, I thought building codes were stricter up there, they are in Ontario I know.
Get that Pink Panther up there working!
cheers
jon & al
And remember
On the first floor 40% of your air comes from the basement so it is constantly being exchanged. If you have an exposed cold basement then your first floor has a 40% higher exposure as well.
On the first floor 40% of your air comes from the basement so it is constantly being exchanged. If you have an exposed cold basement then your first floor has a 40% higher exposure as well.
hoover1060
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just paid my gas bill for November
$83 and some change, not so bad.
My furnace is a Bryant, vintage 2002. I no longer remember the details, but it is hi-efficiency, with the variable speed blower. I had a whole house humidifier installed, and the electronic air cleaner as well. I paid over $5000 for it, replacing the original 1972 furnace.
I love the humidifier, but have problems getting it set just right, as my windows get moisture on them, and my patio door out the back of the house will freeze shut complete with ice and such in the dead of winter.
Are there guidlines for setting one of those things?
9 degrees here this morning, furnace earning its keep for sure!
$83 and some change, not so bad.
My furnace is a Bryant, vintage 2002. I no longer remember the details, but it is hi-efficiency, with the variable speed blower. I had a whole house humidifier installed, and the electronic air cleaner as well. I paid over $5000 for it, replacing the original 1972 furnace.
I love the humidifier, but have problems getting it set just right, as my windows get moisture on them, and my patio door out the back of the house will freeze shut complete with ice and such in the dead of winter.
Are there guidlines for setting one of those things?
9 degrees here this morning, furnace earning its keep for sure!
I love the humidifier, but have problems getting it set just right.
From what I hae seen the allowble relative inddor humidity needs to be adjust downwardly as the outdoor temperatures fall, to avoid just such problems.
Many controls as used on central warm-air heating systems are actually coded in oudoor tempertaures and show the analogous "allowable" (recommended) indoor relatiuve huimidity.
Methinks this is a month-to-month general adjustment rather than a day-to-day headache.
From what I hae seen the allowble relative inddor humidity needs to be adjust downwardly as the outdoor temperatures fall, to avoid just such problems.
Many controls as used on central warm-air heating systems are actually coded in oudoor tempertaures and show the analogous "allowable" (recommended) indoor relatiuve huimidity.
Methinks this is a month-to-month general adjustment rather than a day-to-day headache.
hoover1060
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Steve,
my humidifier control is numbered 10-20-30-40... ect. For the fall months I had it set about 35, no static problems, and the carpet was sufficiently humidified to vacuum and actually get the dog hair up.
I think now I have it set between 20 and 25. That seems to be ok, window moisture is minimal at that setting.
My glasses still fog up everytime I come in from outside too!
Its DAMN cold here today, about 6 degrees when I got up this morning, I wish they'd figure out the heat here at work! Yesterday I'm in a heavier Armani sweater and I'm sweating all day, today I went for a lighter sweater over a t-shirt and I am freezing!
my humidifier control is numbered 10-20-30-40... ect. For the fall months I had it set about 35, no static problems, and the carpet was sufficiently humidified to vacuum and actually get the dog hair up.
I think now I have it set between 20 and 25. That seems to be ok, window moisture is minimal at that setting.
My glasses still fog up everytime I come in from outside too!
Its DAMN cold here today, about 6 degrees when I got up this morning, I wish they'd figure out the heat here at work! Yesterday I'm in a heavier Armani sweater and I'm sweating all day, today I went for a lighter sweater over a t-shirt and I am freezing!
Toggles....
I was reading through rather quickly so I'm not sure if anyone answered your heat pump question or not. Heat pumps can be run safely at any outdoor temperature. They are pretty much self governing. They have back up electric coils in the furnace to help when it's really cold, and they kick into a self defrost mode on their own, when needed, to allow operation in weather below freezing.
I was reading through rather quickly so I'm not sure if anyone answered your heat pump question or not. Heat pumps can be run safely at any outdoor temperature. They are pretty much self governing. They have back up electric coils in the furnace to help when it's really cold, and they kick into a self defrost mode on their own, when needed, to allow operation in weather below freezing.
Domo Arigato.
Thanks. I was jumping to the conclusion that the return-on-investment (of wattage) reached a point that simple resistance electric was just as economical when outdoor extractable heat (temperature) was low.
Thanks. I was jumping to the conclusion that the return-on-investment (of wattage) reached a point that simple resistance electric was just as economical when outdoor extractable heat (temperature) was low.
I was thinking of putting an indicator light on GadgetGary&#
Permission granted, Sir!
Permission granted, Sir!
my humidifier control is numbered 10-20-30-40...
outdoor temperature in degrees F, or relative humidity?
outdoor temperature in degrees F, or relative humidity?
IMHO....
Keeping the electric heat coils from kicking in is important. My thermostat has 2 extra lights that glow when running the heat pump, if the coils are on. A green light, indicating that the "accessory heat" 2 assist coils are running in addition to the heat pump, and a red "emergency heat" led that glows, indicating that the heat pump has gone into defrost mode, and that 2 more coils have kicked on to assist as well. When either of these lights glow, I know to expect a much higher bill. I don't know the watt usage, but I can tell you it is significant. I try to keep my thermostat set below that point at which either of these lights glow, usually 69. It saves a bundle, using solely the heat pump.
Keeping the electric heat coils from kicking in is important. My thermostat has 2 extra lights that glow when running the heat pump, if the coils are on. A green light, indicating that the "accessory heat" 2 assist coils are running in addition to the heat pump, and a red "emergency heat" led that glows, indicating that the heat pump has gone into defrost mode, and that 2 more coils have kicked on to assist as well. When either of these lights glow, I know to expect a much higher bill. I don't know the watt usage, but I can tell you it is significant. I try to keep my thermostat set below that point at which either of these lights glow, usually 69. It saves a bundle, using solely the heat pump.
Said: The worst offenders are that small draft you mentioned around the window.
It is impotant to have make-up air avaialble to your fossil-fueled heater.
Recommendation:
Get a dryer vent. Rip out the flap. Put a screen on it and aim it near the (ceiling of) the heater. With unrestricted air avaiable to replace what your heater dumps or forces up the flue/chimney, you will feel fewer drafts from all other sources. Without this, your system is forced to suck air in from every crack and crevice in the house.
This also helps the dryer and the exhaust fans have make-up air avaiable. These also cause drafts, BTW without make-up air.
Of course please ignore this post if you already have a mechanical heat-recovery ventilator.
It is impotant to have make-up air avaialble to your fossil-fueled heater.
Recommendation:
Get a dryer vent. Rip out the flap. Put a screen on it and aim it near the (ceiling of) the heater. With unrestricted air avaiable to replace what your heater dumps or forces up the flue/chimney, you will feel fewer drafts from all other sources. Without this, your system is forced to suck air in from every crack and crevice in the house.
This also helps the dryer and the exhaust fans have make-up air avaiable. These also cause drafts, BTW without make-up air.
Of course please ignore this post if you already have a mechanical heat-recovery ventilator.
hoover1060
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my humidifier control is numbered 10-20-30-40...
I believe its relative humidity.
I know it does not say degrees on it thats for sure
I believe its relative humidity.
I know it does not say degrees on it thats for sure
My thermostat has 2 extra lights that glow when running the heat pump.
The thermostat I am thinkig of has these lights.
Must see why they dont glow.
The thermostat I am thinkig of has these lights.
Must see why they dont glow.
Pete, do you mean that they had that fireplace damper locked open and no glass doors or anything blocking off the flow of room air all year??? My attic was poorly insulated also so the first year I lived here, I had 20 inches of these little tiny white fiberglass beads blown into the attic. Now, the ceilings under the attic are as cool as the floors and walls in the summer. Thanks to "deregulation," our electricity rates have increased over 20% in the last two years and natural gas has gone up a lot also. Now there is talk of re-regulating or un-deregulating, the gas and electric utilities. There was no competition like was promised when the dereg happened. PEPCO (Potomac Electric Power Co.) immediately sold all of their generating plants to Conectiv (sp?) which tried to declare bankruptcy a year later. BG&E (Baltimore Gas and Electric) used resources they had to try to buy Florida Flicker & Flash (FPL), but no one wants to beef up the transmission lines or increase generating capacity and with all of the growth in the area, we are dangerously close to peak demand exceeding peak supply. During a heat wave, there is precious little excess power to buy from other utilities and transmission lines carrying capacity loads make moving power to us a problem. The investors are making a profit, though, and that is the main focus of the game.
retroguy (and Toggles), I have an optional outdoor temp sensor on my system that reports the outside temp on the thermostat display, and also has the additional functionality of locking out the auxilliary heat strips until the ambient drops to a specified (user-adjustable) temperature. Auxilliary still functions, of course, during defrost or if system mode is set explicitly to Emergency Heat, but otherwise cannot run until the ambient temp limit is reached, no matter how much is the thermostat differential between room temp and setpoint. Normally the auxilliary triggers if there is more than a 2°F differential between room temp and setpoint, or if the system runs for a long enough time that an electronic thermostat determines it's taking too long to reach the setpoint.
I don't recall now what I have set for the limit. I think 25°F. Or maybe less. Probably as low as the setting will go.
The tradeoffs on running the compressor without auxilliary at low ambients are (under some conditions, such as wet weather) more frequent defrosting, and more chance that the system can't keep up with the load and the indoor temp will slowly drop below the setpoint.
Unless the system mode is set to Emergency Heat, the compressor *always* runs *with* the auxilliary at low ambients .... the compressor does not shuts off when the auxilliary turns on during "normal" operational conditions.
Here's the condensor (evaporator, actually, during heat mode) at my previous house a couple mins before a defrost cycle triggered. The weather is not below freezing, but it was wet/rainy with conditions being right for lotsa frosting.
I don't recall now what I have set for the limit. I think 25°F. Or maybe less. Probably as low as the setting will go.
The tradeoffs on running the compressor without auxilliary at low ambients are (under some conditions, such as wet weather) more frequent defrosting, and more chance that the system can't keep up with the load and the indoor temp will slowly drop below the setpoint.
Unless the system mode is set to Emergency Heat, the compressor *always* runs *with* the auxilliary at low ambients .... the compressor does not shuts off when the auxilliary turns on during "normal" operational conditions.
Here's the condensor (evaporator, actually, during heat mode) at my previous house a couple mins before a defrost cycle triggered. The weather is not below freezing, but it was wet/rainy with conditions being right for lotsa frosting.
Jon..did you miss the news,,we moved east and are now happily ensconced in Sarnia Ont. (actually the jurys still out on the happily part) so there'll be no more freezing prairie winds and it has been bitterly cold there for the last month. Well below zero even in Fahrenheit. Our house back there was well insulated, this one being a 50's model, well not so good but I've been in worse, like most 50's houses in the pacific northwest, Seattle, Vancouver, when it's cold outside it's cold inside.
Tom, yes apparently code requires that without an electric interlock on the damper door to shut off or stop ignition of the gas logs it has to be locked in the open position..well actually it's a screw lock you use pliers on. So it was like having a foot square gaping hole in the livingroom.
Tom, yes apparently code requires that without an electric interlock on the damper door to shut off or stop ignition of the gas logs it has to be locked in the open position..well actually it's a screw lock you use pliers on. So it was like having a foot square gaping hole in the livingroom.
DADoES...
Wow....
That heat pump looks FROSTY! Is it possible that the defrost mode was set to come on a bit late? Asking because I've just not seen one look that way before. I know that mine must get some ice in it, as I've seen water pour out the bottom of it in defrost mode. But then, on my unit, the coil is enclosed. You can see it if you look through the top, the sides have down facing vents. It's a Ruud Scroll Inside model paired up with a GE Weathertron HVAC unit. When I had the GE heat pump replaced, the Ruud installer seemed to think the GE was far too small for the house. I'm not as well informed as I should be just yet! I'm sure it'll come in time. I am looking for a replacement for the Weathertron HVAC now however, to hopefully save energy dollars. I'm not really opposed to changing heat pumps again either, to have a strong, efficient, matched system. Any suggestions anyone? =)
Wow....
That heat pump looks FROSTY! Is it possible that the defrost mode was set to come on a bit late? Asking because I've just not seen one look that way before. I know that mine must get some ice in it, as I've seen water pour out the bottom of it in defrost mode. But then, on my unit, the coil is enclosed. You can see it if you look through the top, the sides have down facing vents. It's a Ruud Scroll Inside model paired up with a GE Weathertron HVAC unit. When I had the GE heat pump replaced, the Ruud installer seemed to think the GE was far too small for the house. I'm not as well informed as I should be just yet! I'm sure it'll come in time. I am looking for a replacement for the Weathertron HVAC now however, to hopefully save energy dollars. I'm not really opposed to changing heat pumps again either, to have a strong, efficient, matched system. Any suggestions anyone? =)
chromacolor
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- Nov 7, 2006
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- 137
I replaced my heating & cooling system this summer. I have natural gas forced heat. (as most people do here in Omaha) Will be interesting to see what my gas will be. (hopefully lower) I have a small 1922 bungalow with old windows. It must be insulated well tho because the house never seems drafty. My new system is a 93% efficient Frigidaire, and the previous system was a 1963 Sears Homart. I keep it set on 73.
