Rewiring 240v to 120v Bosch dryer

[washingpowder]

Well that was a desperate kind of thought.
Quick look at the breaker box revealed there is only enough space left for a single-pole breaker.
It would be too much, and I'm slowly adapting to the thought of selling it.
All your answers are greatly appreciated!
Time to hunt for a 120v thingy.

 

[arbilab]

I don't know if Kenmore still sells a 120V dryer but I have one since 1984 and it works fine. Large loads of hard-to-dry need split in half is all. It MUST be vented however, unless you don't mind a ton of lint and humidity in the house.

Shows how much I know, I assumed "condenser" meant like the combos, cooled by tap water and drained. Not, eh?

In 1953 we had a house with no vent and we tried a duct into a pail of water. Hypothetically the water would take the humidity and lint out. So much for hypothesis.

 

[launderess]

@OP

You could try one of these gadgets:

http://makezine.com/2010/08/02/quick-n-dirty-220-volt-converter/

 

[launderess]

Or try using a 5000w step-up converter/transformer

It is likely going to be big, and heavy. You may also have to change the plug on your Bosch dryer. Even so am guessing with the long times for a condenser dryer the thing may get very hot and or cause your panel box to sense an overload and trip.

Being as all this may you probably would want to look into something else to use during the warmer months anyway. Tried to use my condenser last year during warmer months and it really wasn't the best idea.

 

[vacbear58]

@washingpowder

You have not mentioned what type of washing machine you have but you mentioned above the possibility of you getting a spin dryer as well. This will help considerably on cutting down the drying time, no matter what type of tumble dryer you end up with. On the negative side you will find that laundry will be considerably more creased so you may not want to put items like shirts in it unless you REALLY enjoy ironing, but for things like towels, under clothing and bedding it will make a real difference.

I am not in the US for hopefully Laundress can point you to some US items

Good luck

Al

 

[Chetlaham]

Not enough space

Welcome!

How many circuits are in there now? They do make tendem breakers and wafer thins where 2 120 volts circuits can come from one pole. This woud free up enogh space for a 2 pole.

But if thats not in your interest only option would be 120 volts.

Good luck in this!

 

[combo52]

240 Volt Bosch Condenser Dryer

The device in Launderess replay #22 would work if you have two separate 20 Amp circuits in the same area that are on different sides of the power supply in the circuit panel, it would of coerce not produce 220 volts but rather 208 or 240 volts depending on the electrical service your building has.

Even if one was foolish enough to use one of these compact dryers unvented without a lint bag they will produce very little lint in the house if you only clean the lint filter every 3-6 loads instead of after every load, the lint filter in any dryer filters much better if it already has at least a thin layer of lint on it already. On these compact dryers with their tiny heaters and over-sized lint filters this will never cause any problem with drying speed or present any other hazard.

A 120 volt WP built compact dryer is another great way to dry clothing. The lack of a proper outside vent is NOT a big problem, in the winter just vent the dryer into a pillow case cover and enjoy the heat and added humidity. In the summer run a flexible vent hose to a partly opened window, this should be easy to disguise and no one will see any steam coming from your window if the outside temperature is above approximately 50F.

 

[combo52]

240 Volt Bosch Condenser Dryer

Oops in my reply #26 I reversed the last two paragraphs.

 

[launderess]

Partially Open Window

Have found that unless you drop the vent hose several feet down and way from the window, lint/dust is sucked back into the home via the draft. Have seen various "window vent" type things either purchased or custom built used for being able to give the hose access to outdoors but otherwise seal the window so to prevent the above. The added benefit is that one can also run the dryer without letting in air from outdoors if for some reason that is not desired.

We were lucky to nab a window vent kit off eBay for dirt cheap. For others it is simply a bit of wood with an opening made to accommodate the hose/vent opening. A friend of ours used one of those window venting kits sold for portable air conditioners.

 

[Chetlaham]

This guy beats the GE and Heir compacts hands down,

 

 

-1001392/LDR3822PQ/]http://www.whirlpool.com/-[LDR3822PQ]-1001392/LDR3822PQ/

 

[davetranter]

Re: Transformer

'Big' - Not necessarily.... 1/4 Cu ft max...

'Heavy' - Certainly!! (for it's size)

My thought on a transformer is that it's a useful piece of kit to have around. Depending on the type bought, it can transform up, down, or 'the same, but isolated'. I'm not sure how common 'Earth Leakage' circuit breakers (ELCBs)are in the U.S., but here they've been mandatory for domestic installations since (I think) the early 1990s. Generally, they are a 'good thing', but can cause problems through 'nuisance tripping', especially where there are lots of modern 'electronica' in use, all with high leakage 'switch mode' power supplies. Another problem is that a single appliance with a 'slight' fault will cut the power to the entire home. A neighbour of mine had a 'pinhole' in the heater of her washing machine, such that it would 'trip' the ELCB upon the first usage in the morning. I lent her my transformer, so that she could continue to use the machine until she could arrange a repair. As a young mother with a large family, having no usable washing machine was not an option... ;-)

The 7500W transformer that I have is a specialist 'ultra-isolation' type with a VERY large iron core. It's weight is such that I can no longer (as I get older) lift it from the floor unassisted, but can still carry it from one table/bench to another. I would guess that it's about 150-180 lbs. Lighter types are available... Check Ebay, etc.

All best

Dave T

P.S. For those interested, mine has four windings - Two Primaries, Two Secondaries, which can be series or parallel connected, hence the up/down/same capability. The oversize core helps to filter electical 'noise' by losing it in 'Iron Loss'. There is full screening between the windings to provide coupling of 30pF equivalent or less. It was designed (I think) to supply an 'isolated' laboratory.

 

[washingpowder]

I'm renting a coop and the mgmt company did not allow me to make any changes. It's probably because there's something strange going on with wiring in this apartment. For example one of the 20A outlets seems to be omitting the breakers.
Anyways, I saw a couple of those cheap, seemingly made in Asia dryers on Amazon and don't think I would go for it. Whirlpool, GE or Kenmore (the latter preferred due to temp selection). However GE is the only one that forces air from back to the door area, instead of left-to-right, which might be be more efficient when drying bulky items. However I'm certainly not willing the price of a new one(around $800 for this?) so hunting Craigslist and eBay, and planning to visit those used appliance stores in LI. Wish I had a car!
@launderess, I was thinking it might happen, but I have an unused window fan. Maybe placing the dryer's exhaust near it so it sucks it all out be some sort of a solution. Otherwise, I'll look around for window venting. Thank you!
@Vacbear, I'm a proud owner of a top-loading GE Spacemaker. Absolutely fabulous machine for all but extra bulky, like comforters, loads. If it had a dual-action agitator it wouldn't be the case. And I love it has hidden options that were not to be found in the manual like selecting up to 5 extra rinses, time of wash or time of spin. Not sure about the RPM's but putting it through two 7-minute spin cycle was comparable to my previous Bosch (1200RPM)
@dave, now I don't think I would be brave enough to use such a transformer considering this building's wiring. After all it's NYC, in most old buildings your lights dim when you plug in your iron.

 

[launderess]

Compact Dryer

On any given day there are several vintage Whirlpool (also badged as Kenmore) compact/portable dryers on CL, eBay, and so forth. These are often going for pennies and most are in decent enough condition. You *may* want to do a tear down and deep cleaning, but not always required. In the end these units will suffice better than anything modern from Asia.

Got my harvest gold WP portable from a CL seller in Queens. Quite honestly renting a minivan and the tolls on the TBB cost more than the dryer (it cost <$20) and hasn't let me down in over ten years of use.

If I were going to try and run anything 220v and go through all the rigmarole you will need, would aim for a vented unit. At least drying times would be faster and you can use it all year long, even in hot summers.

 

[davetranter]

Wiring in Apartment Buildings

@ WashingPowder
Thanks for the 'heads up' on the state of your building's wiring. It doesn't surprise me. There are plenty of buildings on this side of the 'Pond' in a similar condition. The incoming main supply and wiring was installed in the days when lighting (and perhaps the occasional electric iron) was the only anticipated load, perhaps 5A per apartment (10A Statesside). The 'Incomer' from the supply company is probably inadequate, too. These systems struggle on because the building owners refuse to spend the money to upgrade. Eventually the odd wiring fire will necessitate some changes. Your socket which 'omits' (bypasses??) the breakers is probably wired to someone else's breakers in a neighbouring apartment. Check to see if your meter registers the load on that socket.

Sometimes I forget how lucky I am, owning my own (humble little) home.

All best

Dave T

 

[launderess]

IIRC per NYC code when substantial renovations (such as a gut overhaul) and or something to do with electrical work takes place fuse boxes must be replaced with circuit breakers. Plenty of older buildings in NYC still have fuse boxes but when individual apartments are renovated a circuit panel swaps out the fuse box.

This however does not change the amount of power going into units. That is what it was before hence the skimpy panel found in the OP's unit. Yes, it is just as alluded to above; apartments sized for how persons lived in 1940's, 1960's or whatever but not modern times. You might have two each of 15amp and 20amp for a grand total of 70amps for the entire place. Often outlets are few which is why so many New Yorker's have extension cords and or power strips all over the place. An overloaded or malfunctioning power strip was the cause of that high rise fire a few months ago that resulted in one death.

Keep in mind however most apartments in NYC, at least the older rental units usually have only two main draws on electric power; the AC and fridge. There might be a microwave as well. Other than that the rest comes from all the tech/electronic mod cons such as computers, televisions, cell phone chargers etc.....

Even many older pre-war co-op apartments and or even quasi modern rental buildings are very underpowered for today's electrical demands. Hence the situation one has always mentioned about Miele laundry appliances, many persons wanted them but either did not have or weren't allowed to install the required "220v" (yea Combo I know....) power.

In instances where the wiring in units was that out of date even the meter/box in the basement couldn't handle simply adding 208v-240v service. It could require running a new feeder cable from Con Edison in the street to the building. That is very costly and not something every co-op board or landlord would approve.

You begin to see why Miele gave up the ghost and finally had to offer 120v at least washers.

 

[launderess]

Back on topic

OP, if you truly want to use your Bosch dryer find yourself a step-up transformer (minimum 5000w) and give it a go. You'll probably have to change the plug on the Bosch dryer to fit that of the transformer, but that can be sorted out after you have the thing home.

If you are pulling too much power thus overloading your wiring the breaker should trip, and that will give you your answer. Especially if resetting won't happen until it "cools". These transformers have either breaker protection or fuses, if they go then again you are pulling too much power for the unit to handle safely.

Under no circumstances would I "set and forget" your dryer when using a transformer however. Nor would I leave the place with things plugged in/running.

Personally however feel this still won't solve the problem of running a condenser dryer during hot/humid NYC weather times of the year. Cannot imagine the electrical costs for running the AC to keep an apartment cool and dry enough for the condenser dryer to work properly.

 

[Chetlaham]

I don't know why a transformer is even being mentioned, rewiring would still be needed. The primary full load current when the dryer is running would be about 25 amp at 120 volts, which would need a 10 gauge wire circuit. Unless large 240 volt appliances exists its highly unlikely there would be any circuit with over 12 gauge copper. Usually when an appliance runs over 2000 VA such as an A/C or water heater the norm is to have it run on 240, hence why circuits with wire sizes over 12 cu tend to be 240.

 

 

 

Only way to know if a 240 volt dryer is feasible is to pull the cover off the panel and see whats up. If the apartment has electrical less than 40 years old, or has any large appliances such as an electric range there will be 240. Usually the feeders to the tenant panel tend to be 60amp with #4 Aluminum or #6 copper, which will be plenty for the dryer. However if your unit is all gas with air conditioning supplied from a central chiller or a little 120 volt window shaker you could have anything in your panel. Its not uncommon for older apartments to have a 120 volt 30 or 40 amp feed to the tenant panel and the unit having 2 15 amp general outlet an lighting circuits and 1 20 amp for the entire kitchen. In that case 240 volts even with a transformer will not be feasible. The power just isn't there. 25 amps on a 30 amp line only leaves 5 amps, enough for a few lights. Anything else like the fridge starting will just blow protective current device feeding your panel.  

 

 

[launderess]

I don't know why a transformer is even being mentioned

Because living in New York City long as one has have seen what persons who are dead set in using their European appliances here have done.

Being a global destination city persons come here with all sorts of equipment best have left on the other side of the pond, but for various reasons was not, then ways are found to "make it work". When such items turn up on fleaPay or CL that have obviously been used recently the question becomes how was it so?

Is this safe? Probably not but then again persons kept putting coins in fuse boxes for years when the dangers were by then well known.

Cannot verify this but our electrician once told us that older and some newish if not modern building had wiring that was greater than code requirement. This apparently was done to reduce risks of fires or whatever. Again do not know if this is true or false. However it just *might* be that the wiring inside walls are better than they should be for load.

 

[Chetlaham]

My concern is we are not talking about a low wattage import but rather a clothes dryer. A 1500 watt European appliance plugged into a step up transformer will not tax a standard wall outlet. A 1500 watt 230 volt euro appliance draws about 6.5 amps, which would equate to about 12.5 amps at 120 volts, in reality about 12.6 amps factoring in the transformer losses. 13 amp is perfectly find for a standard 15 amp circuit found in homes.

 

 

A 2800 watt dryer on the other hand will force a step up transformer to draw at least 24 amps. This will overwhelm  a standard 15 amp circuit as well as a 20 amp circuit. A 15 amp breaker will keep tripping and a 20 will on occasion assuming both are working ok and no other loads are present. If the circuit is old and already on its last leg this will do it in.

 

The only way to have this be safe would be to use a 30 amp 10 gauge wire circuit at minimum.

 

"if not modern building had wiring that was greater than code requirement. This apparently was done to reduce risks of fires or whatever. Again do not know if this is true or false. However it just *might* be that the wiring inside walls are better than they should be for load"

 

 

Some contractor may choose to add more circuits or have larger feeders to panels then codes require, but I highly doubt they are running 10 guage copper to ever 120 volt circuit. Even if they are code does not allow standard 120 volt cicuits to be protected over 20 amps, and even if they were a standard outlet and plug is only designed to handle 15 or 20 amps max. Not what the transformer will be pulling.      

 

[launderess]

My concern is we are not talking about a low wattage import

So was I. Washing machines, dryers, laundry press....