Spider Corrosion, And Foul Odors, In Front Load Washers

[combo52]

But what about the bolts that go through the SS drum into the aluminum spider ?

 

You are correct Greg, just putting a plastic washer between the two different metals does little good, there are ways to use special fasteners to do this but it affects the strength of the assembly.

 

Painting or coating of the aluminum would likley do very good as well, when washers had pot-metal aluminum water pumps manufactures tried different epoxy coatings etc and they did as much harm as good, because moisture would get under the coating and corrode even more quickly.

 

Greg I would be willing to bet when you do an autopsy on your 20+ YO Asko some day that the spider will look close to new.

 

John L.

 

[askolover]

I think so too John.  If I could obtain enough parts to keep it running forever I'd do it.  Just found a used timer on eBay to switch out since the old one sticks and just ticks...but it still works great otherwise! 

 

[combo52]

Pictures of a corroded and cracked spider out of a five-year

Old LG 24 inch washer, you can see that it was definitely electrolytic corrosion by the way that the corrosion happens in the center of the spider and not where aluminum and stainless steel are clamped together, LOL

 

[rolls_rapide]

@combo52

Could the cracks be stress fractures, caused by using too thin a grade of aluminium alloy?

 

[kenwashesmonday]

My vote would be dissimilar metals within the casting, like what often happens to pot metal as it ages.  I've seen this quite a bit when working on antique radios and phonographs.

 

[combo52]

Hi Guys

It is corrosion pure and simple, they corrode in this area because this is where the bio-film [ crud from poor washing habits ] accumulates and keeps the area moist.

The notion of impurities in the aluminum is ridiculous, all three arms are corroded in the same area, if it were impurities it would have to be random.

John L.

 

[neptunebob]

Are these spiders anodized? It seems that might help, as anodizing is a form of corrosion and it might not do any more in use. Again, I wonder if Alcoa (Arconic?) research has done anything to solve this issue.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

I'm thinking that if it were actually pure aluminum, it wouldn't corrode like that.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"impurities in the aluminium is ridiculous"

If it is made of a mixture of various metals, then there could be different stress tolerances and flaws in the mixture (eg. air bubbles).

I was thinking that since all three arms are cracked at the same point, it must be stresses caused by the twisting force of the drum shaft.

 

[combo52]

Corroded Spiders

You have to remember that due to poor washing and usage habits this area of the spider that corrodes and breaks is coated in over a 1/2" of toxic gunk that stays wet all the time, even anodizing or epoxy coatings over aluminum will fail under these conditions.

When manufactures design and build these washers they never imagined that people could misuse them is badly and in extensive factory and commercial testing these same machines NEVER fail.

John L.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Maybe some enterprising soul should send a sample of the drum spider for metallurgical analysis. Then we could find out exactly what it is made of. But it might vary batch to batch, manufacturer to manufacturer.

 

[combo52]

Vary Batch To Batch ?

With today's very good manufacturing and quality control it is most unlikely that something like this would vary batch to batch, these machines are not hand built out behind the barn, LOL

John L.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Vary batch to batch

Oh, I don't know - with parts coming from deepest darkest China, anything is possible.

You only need to look at all the carry on with dodgy lithium batteries, faulty chargers and so on to realise not everything is manufactured 'just so'.

 

[thomasortega]

Not everything from China is bad.

Production in China is actually extremely accurate (good factories, not the xing ling ones) and they make everything according to specs.

But when they're given poor specs to save money (and 1 cent per unit makes a huge difference on the final price) plus the consumers desperate for the cheapest bargain at Amazon or Walmart, the result is the poor crap we see nowadays.

So everything can be reduced to only two words: PRODUCTION COST.

There are two ways to deal with it nowadays:

1) Make good products and have people saying "OMG, this washer is much more expensive than the one i saw on the previous link, this manufacturer is trying to steal my money, I'll buy the cheapest one because I'm smart, even knowing that the cheapest one is a crap with 90 day warranty and the expensive one comes with a 3-year warranty and costs 10% more.

2) Follow the beaten path and make crap so the price will be similar to the competitor. Give the "Chinese" factory specific orders to cut every cent on production, go as cheap as possible, to become competitive.

 

[thomasortega]

The spiders problem doesn't have one cause. It's a series of things that together creates a time bomb.

1) Ridiculously low water levels (D.O.E.)
2) Poor quality materials (not exactly poor, but there is a ways to make it better, but it costs more)
3) Impossibility to make it cost more because consumers want as cheap as possible.
4) Millenials that think that just tossine 1 tide pod is enough. Because it has everything, right? it should perform amazingly well and we don't need to spend money on other additives.
5) Americans want everything fast, extremely fast, the washer must wash, dry, fold and put the clothes back in the closet in 3 minutes.
6) The bigger the better, so let's toss all the laundry, the cat, the dog, the husband, the kids, the mattress and the sofa all together in one load and select the quick cycle. If it doesn't come out clean or if it destroys the washer, let's blame the manufacturer because we're paying, so we can do whatever we want and the manufacturer will always be wrong.
7) Use only cold water. Hot water is so 1970's. we need to save the world and hug trees. Should be add some ice cubes and make a "wash on the rocks"? It doesn't matter if the final rinse drains like snot or if the clothes are dingy What matter is the washer using as little water as possible. and to mask the stench, we can add more fabric softener, more scent booster, spend more money buying odor or stain rescue pods, odor neutralizers, etc.
8) Let's keep the door closed after every use. Who cares if it will create the perfect environment for mold? We can sue the manufacturer if we had mold issues. This is 2018, the manufacturers should have created a way to prevent mold without changing our bad habits.

 

[thomasortega]

Someday I'll create a thread with the stupid questions I receive almost every day.

the top rank is:

1) Can I wash a king size duvet in a WonderWash washer?
2) Do I need to use detergent with your washers? How can you say you're a green company if we need to use detergent to wash clothes?
3) Is it really necessary to rinse the clothes after washing? But I use Tide Pods, doesn't it do everything at once?
4) I believe there is a mistake on the user manual, it says you can use hot water. Don't you know that using hot water will destroy our planet?{
5) I let the clothes running for one hour in your spin dryer but they're not completelly dry. they don't even get hot, i think the product is defective. And also, the clothes leave the machine horribly wrinkled.

 

[potatochips]

Dissimilar metals

Ok, Ok, Ive followed this thread for enough time.

Dissimilar metals can be a serious issue without proper protection, and that includes mixing stainless and aluminum. I worked at an oil refinery for many years as a control room operator/plant operator and currently work at a hospital doing the same thing so I have lots of experience with piping, metals, codes, requirements etc... Two metals that should never be fastened together without proper protection is stainless steel and carbon steel. Stainless has most of its excess minerals removed making it mostly impervious to corrosion. However, because of this, it will pull these minerals from carbon steel, or other metals with a higher mineral content, like aluminum. This is measured as the current potential between metals, noble and anodic metals.

Demineralized water codes and engineering requirements completely prohibit the use of carbon steel on demineralized water piping as the demineralized water will pull the impurities and minerals right out of the carbon steel, thus causing galvanic corrosion.

"just putting a plastic washer between the two different metals does little good"

The truth is this actually does great good. Some of our instrumentation such as flow meters have stainless bodies and are on carbon steel lines. Between the flanges are a gasket that is not made of metal, plastic. This works very well and retards the corrosion to a very predictable slow rate.

Water will act as an electrolyte for this corrosion to occur. And because residential water from the utility or well is very high in conductivity, this will only speed up the galvanic corrosion and cause the water to be a much better electrolyte.

 

How much of the aluminum spider actually touches the stainless drum, surface area, is different from manufacturer to manufacturer. The surface area for sure has an effect on how fast and where this type of corrosion occurs. Im not surprised the spiders fail where they do as I feel the cracking right next to the drive shaft is happening at a high stress area, and there is no question these aluminum spiders look corroded when they come out of a broken machine.

 

I personally believe this spider issue isnt one golden nugget problem but rather a calamity of issues. I believe the dissimilar metals and galvanic corrosion has a serious effect on the spiders life time, the stainless pulling whatever it can out of the aluminum and weakening it at a high stress point (which you can tell its the highest stress point since the metal is beefier there). Couple that with customers not leaving their doors open to allow the machine to air dry, using too little bleach to prevent the buildup of organic material which can very well contribute to the demise since those bacterial processes can create acidic environments.

 

Theres a multitude of errors here, theres not one smoking gun.

 

[rolls_rapide]

So, corrosion up to the point where stresses take over.

I just wish they'd use materials a tad more robust. It'd save everyone a lot of grief.

 

[gizmo]

non-aluminium spider

I have the drum and backplate assembly from an old Asko in my shed. It is from a model 12004, whenever that was - pre-2000 for sure. (I still have 2 complete machines of the same model too, needing minor repairs, but still with their original bearings and spider in good condition.)

It has a stainless steel spider - flat pressed stainless steel, welded to the centre shaft. It still has the backplate attached so it is a bit difficult to see, but it is clear enough. No al.

I wonder what newer Askos do?

 

[potatochips]

It has to be a multitude of issues that brings machines to this point. I dont believe its one solid thing that causes the chain of events.

 

I had a front load GE in my old townhouse that was brand new. I had it five years and always took care of it as the instructions said so. Never grew mold or anything. It may be a symptom of North Americans not understanding that FL machines arent care free like TL.

 

Speaking of that, does this issue occur in Europe? Or is it a North American issue? What brands are more prone to failure?