Whirlpool FL washers accumulate mold, class action lawsuit says

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supersuds

supersuds

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No surprise to anyone here, but this story about a class action lawsuit for Oho residents against Whirlpool, from the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper, has some interesting tidbits:

Two Ohio women named on the complaint allege that their Whirlpool machines don't rinse out all detergent and fabric softener, and the laundry drum on the machines doesn't completely drain. That, in turn, causes the washers to gather mold, they allege.

**********

The suit, before U.S. District Judge James Gwin, alleges that as mold problems became "undeniable," Whirlpool began recommending that machine owners run three successive cleaning cycles with a Whirlpool tablet called Affresh. That conflicts with Whirlpool's promotion of the washers as high-efficiency, according to the suit.

Several entrepreneurs responded to an "avalanche of consumer complaints" by designing products such as SmellyWasher and NuFreshNow to address mold problems, the lawsuit says.

A lawyer for the Whirlpool owners, Jonathan Selbin, said complaints multiplied because the company didn't adequately explain to owners of front-loading washers that they required different upkeep than top-loading machines.

"They're filled with gunk that gathers on the back wall behind the drum," said Selbin, at the New York office of Lieff, Cabraser, Heimman & Bernstein. "Their own internal documents all talk about the fact that they created a machine that's an ideal environment for mold growth."

Whirlpool, based in Benton Harbor, Mich., said in a court filing that the machines come with explicit guidelines on how to prevent the formation of mold -- described as "biofilm" -- including leaving the washing machine door open between uses so moisture can escape.

Whirlpool said at least 97 percent of all washer buyers have never experienced mold or odors and can't show any injury. Problems that did arise came from the "abuse, misuse or improper use of the washers," Whirlpool said in its defense.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/11/whirlpool_front-loading_washer.html
supersuds++11-9-2012-23-50-18.jpg
 
My 14yo FL smells faintly like Tide HE and nothing else. All I do is towel the boot and NOT use softener.

Softener is only a good idea if you're in the business of selling softener. It gloms machinery and waterproofs towels. And it DOES grow mold.

Howcome this was never a problem with the Westinghouse FLs I grew up with? We didn't even towel the boot and it didn't have drain holes. But softener hadn't been invented yet. Neither had class-action lawsuits that I know of.

This reeks of idle lawyers looking for a hook issue and they found a few dumb hausfraus to leverage it off of. And I wouldn't end a sentence with TWO prepositions if I weren't somewhat indignant.
 
Well my WP machine is approaching 8 yrs old and doesn't smell like mold. It smells like a hint of Tide HE too. I DO use liquid fab softener. But I purposely buy the cheap kind that is already somewhat watered down and I dilute it with white vinegar and there's no build up, even on the outer drum. You can see the heating element if you use a flashlight in the tub if you look at a certain angle.
 
I think that title should read

"Clueless consumers cause mould build up in their Whirlpool washing machines."

No offence but only in America would you get a lawsuit against a washing machine manufacturer because the owners don't use them properly.

Reminds me of those people who tried to sue McDonalds for making them fat...

Matt
 
Probably also only in America does the government collude with detergent and machine manufacturers to drive down the water usage of washers and dishwashers, spread the falsehood that cold water cleans everything and play down the importance of rinsing. My father always taught that rinsing was as important as washing in soil removal. From the time that automatics appeared, one phrase appeared in all advertising, "cleans itself." This was a direct appeal to what people who used wringer machines knew was part of the washday process, cleaning out the machine after use.

None of my FLs have growth or smells, but they are mainly used with hot or warm water, 80F rinse water & STPP added to either TIDE he or Persil. Rinsing is thorough. Only in the case of dark colors is the wash 80F or lower using liquid Cheer with Colorguard and these are not garments worn next to the skin. The doors are left open and the dispenser drawers are removed from the Mieles and the dispenser chamber toweled dry because the little fill holes hold a lot of water.

Older tumbler machines used when hot and warm water in sufficient quantities were the norms for good laundering did not smell, but detergents had phosphates then and people used chlorine bleach more. Sometimes inadequate rinsing and over use of the washing product led to corrosion of the machines by the caustic residues of the detergents, but they were not slimy.
 
Duet HT

We have owned a Duet HT since November 2007. Have had never problems with mold. I use the instructions sent with the machine to clean the washer. I put in 2/3 cup of clorox beach, set to clean cycle and let her rip. I clean it probaly every 2~3 months. It cleans it right up! I clean for a family who has one of the first Duet's sold. Same thing it never smells of mold. We also leave our washer open when not in use.

Like some of you said...if some of these consumers would "read and follow instructions" these problems would not exist. Also leaving wet laundry in a sealed washer overnight causes these problems to escalate.

We knew family who owned a 1958 Westinghouse Laundromat washer and matching dryer. The mother washed clothes daily for 6 people (4-kids + parents). She always left wet clothes in her machine 24/7. The washer started to leak and a hole was discovered in the outer drain tub near the top of the tub. Apparently it was from the moisture from the wet clothes combined with the detergent attacking the outer steel tub.

My aunt had a 1953 Laundromat and never had a problem as she always left the door open after use. She never left wet clothes in the macine ever! She used that washer until sometime into the late 70's.
 
most American's do not know how to use a FL washer...

Probably 99.9% of us Americans grew up with and only know top load washers. Manufacturers did nothing to educate the general public on how to properly use one, or any HE machine, nor has our government, who is either encouraging or mandating lower water use in washers. Both sides of that class action lawsuit have some responsibility for the problems, IMO.

If fabric softener truly causes mold, seems to me that the washer manufacturers should not put the dispenser in a machine, or make it very, very small. That seems like a no-brainer to me, but what do I know? The one in my washer is frighteningly large.

Detergent residue is blamed for a lot of mold. I now have a Miele, and I have to do the math every time I add detergent, reducing whatever amount is on a detergent label to one-fourth or one-third that amount. I have to think about "just how dirty are these clothes?" and factor in the volume of clothing in the washer. It sometimes feels like a game of russian roulette, wondering if I have too little, enough, or too much detergent! Loser spends the next three hours running consecutive cycles to get the soap out.

Detergent label suggestion is too much detergent for our Miele, and I see soapy bubbles in the final rinse. Yes, soap (rainbow color bubbles), not clear water agitation bubbles. Our water is a moderate hardness, leaning toward soft.

The book that came with our Miele says to use the amount posted on the detergent label. My neighbor can do that, with her Whirlpool front load machine. Maybe hers uses more water. Maybe it rinses better. I don't know. Once I get old and senile, my washer will probably look like that old "I Love Lucy" episode. Costco HE liquid detergent label says to use more(!) in a HE machine than an old-fashioned machine. It gets really confusing.

So, I can see both sides of the class action lawsuit. IMHO, nobody and everyone is to blame. ;-)
 
I have had what now seams to be hundreds of front loading washing machines. None of which EVER got ANY mold anywhere. The only times I have seen any mold on a front loading washer, it was caused by user ignorance and/or abuse. Now,most brands have a device that holds the door open to iliminate any growth of fungus and helps keep the interior fresher.
 
Homemaking skills will not be improved by winning a lawsuit.
The judge would declare a mis-trial if I were on the jury. 'Can we have a peek inside these women's refrigerators, their ovens and the floor behind the toilet?' But I'm sure they won't have too much trouble finding a jury of these women's peers, sad to say.
 
This is a VERY interesting thread....and say that for a fact of taking a survey.....

WHAT if you were on this JURY....how would you side on who is to blame, or at fault for such?......

I don't think I would favor either side, more of a 50/50 mistrial....

you have consumers who have no clue of doing laundry, or just plain negligence of operating a FLer, not to mention a traditional TLer...

and then you have a company like Whirlpool, who puts out a machine, that is not put into full detail to a consumer of its operation, or maintenance required.....

and then theres the silent partner, The Government, who insist on a Low water usage High Efficient machine, but not Highly Effective at doing its function, within these guidelines.....

it just seems were gonna hit a NO WIN scenario.....

but a lawsuit so ludacrist, would have the consumer winning......

What do you guys think, or how would you favor?
 
On the jury

My prejudice would be that these owners were raised by wolves. And that only the plaintiff's lawyer makes out in these class actions.

Maybe I could set those aside and decide on the evidence and arguments presented. But it would be a hard sell and my BS detector would probably be going off the whole time. Cuz the whole premise goes against >20yrs experience using FLs properly.
 
In this instance...

...and provided 2 factors are in place:

- there is a line towards the front of the instruction booklets asking the purchaser to 'Please read this instruction book' or similar; and

- there is satisfactory information contained in the booklet about 'how to maintain and care for your machine', which if followed, would prevent mould....

...I want Whirlpool to win.

In a society, such as the USA, that puts so much emphasis on the rights of the individual to seemingly do as they please, then the individual needs to take responcibility should they fail to follow instructions, warnings etc. provided they are contained in a sensible and accessible place.
 
then the individual needs to take responcibility . . .

Unfortunately, juries disagree. Several years ago or more, a guy won an injuries lawsuit against a tire manufacturer. I read about this in the American Bar Association Journal. The guy over-inflated the tire and it exploded on him. This, in spite of the appropriate pressure markings on the tire, which is why the story made the ABA Journal.

Juries always stick it to the corporation, no matter what. Let's not forget the McDonald's hot coffee trial. . .
 
Back in the 1970's Cessna, Piper & Beechcraft stopped making light aircraft for a number of years. Why? Because people were going out, getting drunk and then getting in these aircraft and killing themselves. The victims families decided to sue the plane's manufacturer because the plane crashed. Idiots.

Finally after several states passed laws preventing this kind of lawsuit did the manufacture of these airplanes resume.
 
I've learned through experience not to judge the merits of a case by reading newspaper articles.

However...

 

What may be most significant is the internal company memos mentioned in the article, depending on what they say. That's what hurt the tobacco companies badly; for decades they denied any bad health effects from smoking when they'd been warned about it repeatedly by their own people. Same with the Ford Pinto and its exploding gas tank.

 

At this point, class action certification doesn't mean the case has been judged on the merits, just that there are a large number of plaintiffs whose claims are similar and can be consolidated into one proceeding. Later, the defendant will move for summary judgment, meaning the court can dismiss the case before going to a jury trial.
 
As some home quarters grow smaller, designers of laundry rooms do not allow room for the doors of FL washers to be kept open enough to dry them out. Even a door left slightly ajar could be a hazard for leg injuries if the laundry alcove is along a busy hallway and there is traffic past the front of the machines. I thought that some or at least one manufacturer was using a fan in the vent system to dry out the machine after each use.
 
Speaking from experience

You can tell people till you're blue in the face to only use the correct dose of a good quality powdered detergent containing oxygen based bleach (or add some), use the hottest, longest and most vigorous cycle possible for the load you are washing, don't overload and leave the door ajar between uses otherwise they will have mouldy, disgusting machines. They simply will not listen, they are not interested and really do not care.

I have even cleaned people's machines out thoroughly for them and explained why they need to follow the above advice to keep their machine clean, only to come back several months later and find the machine dirtier than it was before and none of my advice followed.

The manufacturers can try as much as they like to educate people on how to use their machines, it won't make a difference, people think they know best and will always stick to their old habits.

Attempting to reeducate people on the topic of good laundry procedures is fighting a losing battle.

Also, if the machine is really located somewhere where the door cannot even be left with the latch pushed against the opening (all that is required to air it out, just for the seal to not be airtight) then the laundry area really needs relocating, or these people should really be buying top loaders (and leaving the lid up between uses ofcourse).

Matt
 
Thinking

I wonder how manufacturers will respond to this lawsuit. Whether Whirlpool wins or loses, the marketplace will respond in some form or another.

It sure seems like a washing machine that can detect an over sudsing condition should be able to detect trace amounts of detergent remaining in the next to last rinse and add additional rinsing when the ALLERGY rinse button is engaged.

Additionally, wouldn't an advanced rinsing profile minimize the risk of mold growth?

And while we are at it, how about introducing a PUR water filtration system to ensure incoming water was as clean as possible?

Malcolm
 
 
1.  ALL washers, ALL brands, FRONTloaders and TOPloaders, can develop mold and munge.

2.  User carelessness and bad habits is the primary cause.  The push to cold (and cooler warm & hot) water promotes and exacerbates the problem.

3.  Suspect the reason for picking on frontloaders is the purchase cost premium and repair cost premium that's involved, and they're "newfangled" to the consumer-off-the-street.
 
Mould & Mildew Will Grow Anywhere Conditions Are Favourable

Damp/humid conditions + warmth + food source ='s mould/mildew.

Washing machines both top and front loading have been around for almost >100 years now so where is this sudden plague of mould coming from? IMHO washing machine makers should lay some of the blame squarely at the feet of regulations/laws mandating water and or energy usage.

When washing machines in particular front loaders were allowed to use the amount of water required to get the job done we never heard of "washer cleaning" cycles. There was no need for such nonesense. Long as proper laundry techniques were followed including proper dosage of detergents with hot water, muck and grime were mostly flushed down the drains.

Today consumers use mainly liquid detergents and cool to cold water in washing machines that on average often do not rinse well. All that residue of soils and surfactants make up a nice breeding ground for mould.
 
I have been using FL/h/axis TL machines almost consistently since 1981 and I have never had a mould/mildew/odour problem. I never wipe the door seal dry at the end of a cycle, I have never used a cleaning cycle or any washing machine cleaning product. I always leave the door ajar when the machine is not in use - simples! This sounds like lawyers making money from clueless consumers.
 
@foxchapel:

Tires rarely fail due to overinflation. If you're talking about the Ford/Firestone Ford Explorer fiasco, I can tell you that the suit wasn't brought or settled over overinflated tires.

And the talk-radio favorite example of McDonald's coffee didn't end up making that woman rich, either.

We had a 2-term President a while back that claimed minority women on welfare were driving Cadillacs, too.

Did you hear the one about the Doctor that bought a Craftsman mower and gave himself a heart attack because there wasn't anything in the instructions telling him to stop pulling the starter rope when it wouldn't start?
 
@whirlcool:

I think you are talking about the General Aviation Revitalization Act.

While there were a spate of lawsuits from parties with an interest in small airplane crashes in the late 1970s and early 1980s, it's useful to think why that happened. People that bought small aircraft tended to be financially successful, which gave them the ability to buy small aircraft in the first place. Successful entrepreneurs tend to be risk-takers in their business dealings, and spread out their success into other endeavors. Type "A" personalities, if you will.

The genesis for the legislation that absolved light aircraft manufacturers from liability came from 2 things:

1. The recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s that pummeled the small airplane business. As a result, the market value of Cessna dropped dramatically. The recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s really hurt their business jet business. It hit their small airplane business, worse than the biz jet business but the core value of Cessna was the biz jet worth.

2. General Dynamics purchase of Cessna in 1986. General Dynamics had strong political connections (being a gigantic defense contractor that made everything from fighters to nuclear submarines) and used those connections to their advantage. They were buying Cessna for their undervalued business jet business, not their little airplane business.

Business jets are flown by professional pilots for the most part, and there are usually 2 crew members flying them. Not much liability attached to that.

General Dynamics wanted to buy the plum part of Cessna, and not have the little airplane part hurt their bottom line. Hence, the GARA act. Not drunk pilots or distraught wives.

But, as the saying goes, "everything old is new again". General Dynamics eventually sold Cessna to Textron - and Textron owns Lycoming, which makes piston engines for small airplanes, Bell Helicopter Company, and EZ-Go Golf Cart company.

So, things are never as simple as they seem.

If you're eyeballs aren't totally worn out by now, I can tell you about how we ended up with Allied-Signal, which managed everything from oil wells to nuclear warhead production. It's a fascinating story of American business, where the expected outcome was where Signal Oil would take over Allied Chemical...
 
Don't get me started on Allied Signal. I was an inadvertant stockholder. They bought Ampex, which I already owned, and ran it into the ground. They also bankrupted Mack Truck. To escape their bad name reputation they bought Honeywell and adopted the name.
 
Probably a combination of factors:

 

Ever wonder why Downy is now telling  you to shake the bottle well before each use.  Probably because they have removed some thickener that P&G found to contribute to build up in energy star washers - but they won't dare say that.

 

Then there is the washer and the government energy programs.  No one is telling consumers to use the hottest water the fabric can stand.  Instead everyone is telling folks to wash in cold water.  So what is cold?  60F, 70F, 37F?  Even if you wash in warm water -  warm is now 80F or less.  Hot on some machines is 110F for regular loads.  With ATC consumers cannot use water hotter than the washer will mix it. 

 

The Whirlpool user manual:   This states that bio-film may build up.  HUH?  Even when I saw the phrase bio-film,  MOLD did not come to my mind -  until I thought about it.  I wonder how many consumers read over that line and .....just didn't get it. 

 

Never had any clean machine cycle until recently.  Why would we need one now?  Use of cold washes, use of hot washes using temps that use to be considered warm, use of thick liquid detergents, over use of detergents since the instructions don't mention anything about adjusting for soil level at all ..just load size..  unless things are heavily soiled and then you are supposed to use more...and now we have pacs that can clean small loads and large loads because.....the pac can tell the difference and adjust for load size and soil level?......I bet not.
 
@arilab:

Wow, someone that remembers Ampex!

Alexander M. Pontienoff was a skilled engineer, but if it weren't for Bing Crosby bankrolling him...who knows what would have happened.

Short story: Magnetic tape recording technology was one of our spoils of war that we took home from the Nazis post WWII. Along with missile technology and jet engines...

Bing Crosby was getting tired of performing his radio show for the East coast, and having to stick around the studio to do it again for the West coast four hours later. Bing Crosby bankrolled Ampex because Bing only wanted to perform once a day.

Captured German technology, plus Bing Crosby's capital is what started Ampex...

Bonus points if you know who Jeep Harned was...
 
Remember Ampex? I worked for them in 1969. Made my living making broadcast videotape work for ~20 years. The only Ampex video machines I DIDN'T work on were the tube version and AVR2.

Knew the Crosby connection, though I otherwise have general contempt for him as a person. Jeep is a new one on me. Know who E. Stanley Busby was?

Would you like to have the official Ampex book "Videotape Recording"? It's an incomparable reference to anyone interested in technical television history. I'm not likely to live much longer (or I wouldn't give it away) and nobody I know would value it. It's otherwise unobtanium as it was a corporate publication not a commercial one and could be a priceless collectable at some point in the future. I'd just like it to have a good home. It's the only thing I have that hardly anyone else could possibly have.
 
Ampex

YES!!!!Used to deal with their decks in the radio industry-WORKHORSES!!!lets see-Ampex 300,350,3200,ATR100,440,it goes on.The agency I now work for had the 300's in their studios-Rec/PB.The central recording branch used the 3200-high speed dubbing.Other radio stations had 350,700,440.Loved these machines-they worked well,built solid-and easy to fix when they broke.Back in the early 90's my workplace tried an AEG "Magnetophone" to try to replace the Ampex machines-Instead they went to Studer.810-HORRIBLE machines to work on.But they worked well otherwise.Now the Wash DC plant has gone digital and all of the Ampexes are gone-went to the Library of Congress-they use the machines to convert and transcribe digital audio material to analog-the analog archives better than digital and is easier to retrieve.The machines would be in their archives in Culpepper,Va.Now that I work on transmitters-so miss my ol' freinds the Ampexes.Have a few service books on the machines I worked on and the book Arbilab has would be interesting-if no one wants it,would be intertested-another AMPEX guy!!!And--I own an Ampex 300! still works-full track mono.It has the orig tube Rec/Pb amp.
 
the overinflated tire . .

@Iowegian - No, it was not the Firestone lawsuit. This was a guy putting air into a tire, at a pump, at a service station. I do not think Firestone was even mentioned in the article; pretty sure it was another brand.
 

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