Why Do All Speed Queens Spray Rinse While Full of Water?

[Chetlaham]

At first I thought it was a fluke, simple timer specification error or water evacuation miscalculation on my Speed Queen. Then again I did turn up the water level on my machine, so maybe they were taking that into account the tub being only 2/3 full. So it would make sense why my machine always starts spraying water while the tub is about 1/3 full of water. Ok, makes sense. Kind of, but good enough.

However, looking at timer model, electronic, TC-5 and even TR machine the spray rinse always begins with the tub about 1/4 full of water. In fact when all variable are taken into account, it seems like Speed Queen deliberately programmed their machine to add water at exactly the point the tub dips to 1/5 water. This holds true for all cycles, including normal eco.

My question is why? Why not let the machine reach full spin speed and then do a 30 second spray rinse? Whilrpool, GE, Frigidaire, Maytag, ect all let the pump first start pulling in air even worse case scenario.

36:52 is a perfect example:



Ok, I get it, water was added to the tub and its only rags. 7:44, correct water level for the water, same thing:



15:28:



I can post 100+ videos of this exact same phenomenon in 12 different models over a 25 year production period.

My question is why? What benefit does it serve when the water doesn't even go through the clothes?

It gets weirder in that the tech sheets and service manuals relevant to timer models actually list the spray starting in the second increment or 3 minutes in yet all real life scenarios put the spray in the first increment at about 1 minute out from the start of the drain.

Is someone at Speed Queen making last minute changes behind the backs of engineers? I don't think a spray rinse should start so early.

 

[qsd-dan]

The only logical reason I can think of is that the early spray rinse washes some of the lint/hair off of the clothes before being pinned to the inner tub at full speed. Spray rinsing while the tub is trying to speed up is an overall bad idea in my personal opinion. It's hard on the belt for the models that use it for clutching and it's hard on the clutch/clutch packs. It certainly doesn't do the motor any good.

 

[Chetlaham]

IMHO I can't see 15 extra seconds of tub drag being that much compared to the 90 seconds of tub dragging during the drain. However, I do agree with you, I think it doesn't do much overall.

 

[ozzie908]

OK Dumb question coming up ...

Why use 2nd rinse when it then rinses out all the fabric softener you put in the dispenser? Would it not be better to add during the 1st rinse so it would be used in the last rinse?

 

[qsd-dan]

That's basically an issue with any top loader that uses a non electronically actuated fabric dispenser solenoid.

These machines also spray rinse on the final spin, something carried over from the belt drives. It probably rinses out a bit of the softener out as well.

 

[launderess]

"Why use 2nd rinse when it then rinses out all the fabric softener you put in the dispenser?"

One simple answer dryer fabric softener sheets.





American housewives and others who did laundry long had an issue with top loading automatic washing machines, use of liquid fabric softeners was either inconvenient or otherwise a bother. Once some clever chop came up with fabric softener sheets that could be used in dryers, problem was largely solved.

Would have to research further but believe for years now fabric softener sheets have outsold liquid or other washer based products.

From a design point of top loading washers, those spray rinses during final spin do serve a purpose I suppose. They certainly cut down on what might be less than optimal results from just one deep rinse.

Going back some top loaders sold in USA had option for second deep rinse. That seemed to have gone by the boards with sprays during final spin replacing. If research tells washing machine makers that consumers largely are going to use dryer sheets....

 

[mrboilwash]

Has someone here actually ever tried and succeeded to rinse out fabric softener from fabrics with plain water only?

 

[Chetlaham]

Spray Rinse In Last Spin

My guess is that in the event someone used to much detergent the spray rinse would knock down any remaining suds after the deep rinse. In turn reducing complaints of machines not rinsing well. Consumers don't know how machines work. Just the final product at the end. Whirlpool knew how to protect their brand image.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

spray rinsing while full

What were they thinking when Speed Queen spray rinsed laundry while on heavy duty when full of water? If you use fabric softener, it will cary over into the laundry detergent water! That doesn't make any common sense.

 

[Chetlaham]

Common Sense

Is only common to those who have it. Given Speed Queens attitude about the TR, theirs is lacking...

Whirlpool listens however. On their Coin-OP resource saver washer they actually do a full 2 minute drain before going into spin and spray rinsing incrementally.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

slow spin

I am so sick and tired of the slow spin on the heavy duty cycle before rinse. It doesn't get all the soapy water out! I have had no issues with drain pipe foam! What were they thinking?

 

[Chetlaham]

As someone once told me "the problem isn't what they think, its that they don't think"

I'm with you, my 2014 Queen drains on high, and there isn't any foaming in the drain pipe. I mean, isn't that why HE detergent now exists?

 

[gyrafoam]

I have a ten year old SQ that doesn't start spraying until the water is out. Very much like an old Maytag.

The old solid tub Kelvy's used to start a hot water spray the moment the first spin started that lasted well up to the tub reaching the top of the spin. One would think that would have created a lot of stress, but, they seemed to plough through without any issues. Consider how high-sudzing detergents were back then and the vigorous agitation of the Kelvy, and you would think it would all end up with sudz-lock, but, I never saw that.

 

[blockeight88]

This has always bothered me, as well. And those are two of my videos.

 

[combo52]

They spray water in as the machine is almost drained

To reduce the possibility of scum and lint on top the clothing, it also helps kill suds and cools the fabrics a little bit.

All spin drain machines have the potential to leave scum and lint plastered on clothing.

Conventional Speed Queen top load automatics sold in other countries often have neutral drain because they don’t use dryers and Speed Queen is aware of this problem with lint and scum on clothing.

 

[Chetlaham]

All the lint and scum I've seen made itself known in neutral drain washers. And it shows as it builds up on the water line of the agitator, inner tub and outer tub as a whole. I don't have scum lines on my Speed Queen and never saw them on GE FFs and Maytags. Whirlpools and post FF GEs tend to have thick calcified rings.

Setting up a cycle to spray at the exact instant the clothes become uncovered by water is a pointless effort in that to many variables come into play to achieve the desired results. Pump out time, loading, water level, tolerances, ect all come together resulting in either water entering the tub while still full or completely drained and fully accelerated.

Best time to spray rinse is 2 to 3 minutes after spin has started, this will be enough time to allow for a reasonable worse case pump out.

 

[combo52]

Chat you are amazing

With the problem of spin drain being mentioned in GE service manuals for Filter Flow washers, in service manuals for Maytag washers, in-service manuals for speed queen washers, and we all know what happened when Whirlpool tried to pull a fast one and make a spin and drain direct drive washer it was a disaster. Whirlpool was taking back washers left and right customers are returning them to Sears.

For all the reading and research you do and you can come up with a totally bizarre opinion of things this is why most people ignore your posts.

And because you’ve never listed any qualifications that you have, it really is just all emotional and that’s not the way engineering is done in this world.

Your constant childish obsession with one dial washers and machines that don’t even need thermostats etc. etc. it’s just ridiculous enjoy.

John Al

 

[Chetlaham]

That would be true- if I didn't have first hand experience laundering clothes.

Can you post pics or copy and paste these excerpts from all 3 companies?

I don't see people noticing when their DDs stop neutral draining, assuming they did in the first place.

Its not the one knobs I'm passionate about, but across the line induction motors which probably would have spared Maytag. Since you brought up thermostats you and I both know most GE dishwashers never had one (except in the motor) which was among one of the many cost and reliability measures which helped get them in millions of homes.

You're choosing to ignore facts. And like all to many tenured persons in 2022 you chose to ignore individual experiences by quipping 'you don't have the credentials I have' Well, that logic won't make you a better chef... Or get the TC series to clean clothes...

 

[Chetlaham]

Engineering Done In This World

I'll let the experts talk since I lack the credentials to opine:

"Dryers are simple, humble machines that do three things: tumble the clothes, get ‘em warm, and move a lot of air. Why would you want or even need an over-priced failure-prone “electronic control system” for a friggin’ dryer? I can almost understand it for a refrigerator or a gourmet oven, but a dryer? Putting an electronic control board in a dryer is like installing a GPS nav system on a kid’s tricycle. Enough! Stop the madness! Friends don’t let friends buy dryers loaded with over-blown electronic crap."

"You can usually tell you’re dealing with one of these puffed-up beasts (also sold under the Ken*** label) because it’ll have the words “Even Heat” somewhere on the control panel. This dryer is a perfect example of how buying appliances with needless and overblown electronics is hazardous to your financial health."

https://fixitnow.com/wp/2009/03/17/...problems-with-the-whirlpool-even-heat-dryers/

Tell me, what is gained here?

If modern day professional precept involves compelling engineers to invest tenacity into integrating unnecessary complexity into timeless, proven, wholly satisfactory simplicity you can bet your top dollar I'm going to challenge the inevitable shortcomings of those ideas. You can bet your career I'm going to ask questions and you can bet your reputation I'm going to dream up of a more realistic design. Ones that might appear childish, outlandish or ridiculous to you... even though they've already been proven a monster smash success over a 125 year period prior.

Which takes me back to Speed Queen. Its not bizarre to say my own personal experience involves less lint then the DD I had or that the spin spray starts to early.