Why do Euro washers have heaters?

[jerrod6]

Agree with Tom

Growing up our domestic hot water was heated by our boiler which heated it by running it through a series of coil tubes that were submerged in the water that was circulating throughout the house. In a sense it was kind of like a tank less heater in that when we ran the water at a faucet the cold water would enter the coils run through them and absorb the heat from the surrounding water in the boiler then be directed to faucets. In the winter the boiler kept the water between 160F and 180F and during a heat cycle it was between 170F and 180F, and our water from the faucets would between these temps. In the summer the water stayed at 140F.
The water was hot but no one EVER got a burn from it.

 

[pierreandreply4]

Me i would say that for a water heater 120f is a perfect temp for hot water and i would not be superise that in a few years from now hot water thanks will be set at 110F because of water saving as i am one that rarely wash in hot water i mostly wash in warm water and cold water

 

[arbilab]

I have no use for water hotter than 120F. DW works fine as it is, long as I run the faucet. Hardly use it anyway, waste for just a pan, fork, plate. No compulsion to 'sterilize' clothes. Not a surgeon. Besides, if they were infected when I was wearing them, wouldn't I already be sick? LOL

 

[tomturbomatic]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that high washing temps were to sanitize clothes. You don't sterilize at these temps. The high temps were used to bleach whites without using bleaching agents. It is very effective.

 

[ronhic]

...and

High temperature washing also helps remove body oils....

 

Whilst you'd think anything over body temperature would do the trick, especially now, washing in the past did partly rely on higher temperatures to shift the soiling due to the 'not quite as effective' detergents..

 

 

[launderess]

A Test Was Conducted Circa 1930's

By a well respected lab and it was then proved that laundering textiles at 160F for ten minutes rendered the items "germ free" enough to be considered sanitary. It is from that study that we have the common commercial laundry practice or standard required by law that is mandated in many areas when dealing with public and or hospital laundry.

However being as all that may, further subsequent studies and tests proved there are other ways of obtaining the same results. Wash programs, liquid chlorine bleach, oxygen bleach, peracetic chemicals and so forth when done properly all will reduce germ count on textiles to the same levels as boiling.

Commercial laundries in particular were seeking ways to reduce their costs, especially heating all that water. There is also no denying that boil washes are harsh on textiles. It reduces their life span and causes shrinkage (amoung other problems), things that tended to tick customers off.

In Germany (a country known for almost having a thing about things being clean), the standard for hospital and similar types of wash is 180F! You haven't seen white uniforms and linens until you've been to a German hospital. The ratty scrubs worn by most staff here the states would never pass muster there.

 

[ronhic]

You haven't seen white uniforms and linens until you&#39

How true it that Launderess!

 

[arbilab]

the standard for hospital and similar types of wash is 180F!
============================================================

Holy smokes! Meat only has to be 165F (throughout) to be considered sterile. But I'll give hospitals the 15* if it means I won't get an infection I didn't bring with me.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Arbilab, you keep confusing sterile and sanitary. Sterilizing is done in an autoclave with steam under pressure. Surgical instruments and surgical linens are autoclaved (or were), but you are right that garments worn by hospital medical staff should be washed in hot water to reduce germ transmission. I wonder about all of these brightly colored scrubs that nurses wear at work. It has been found that one of the most efficient transmitters of "germs" is a doctor's necktie and forget about him plunking his filthy ass down on a patient's bed after he has sat in chairs and on benches in public places, sat in his car seat, etc. I would put his blazer or suit coat up there too; none of which is cleaned after each wearing. He transfers all of that to the bedding of a sick or recovering person. UGH! "He is such a caring doctor; he goes to all of his patients' funerals."

I wonder if germ transmission would go down if all medical personnel had to change into hospital-laundered uniforms before hitting the floors and leave their street clothes in a locker.

 

[launderess]

Hospitals Doing Their Own Laundry

Very much depends on where in the world they are located amoung other things.

Whilst once common that most hospitals did have in-house laundry facilites, such service along with quite a few others have been out-sourced over the years. The main push for this is hospitals/healthcare settings seeking to concentrate on their core mission. Thus things which are not seen as essential to that mission, and indeed are a non-revenue producing expense are mananged in such a way as to keep costs down.

Commercial laundries are heavily regulated today, right down to the workers and for good reason. The equipment can not only be dangerous to those whom operate it, but the builing it is housed in and surrounding area as well. As modern "steam laundries" took over from hand washing and or hiring in persons to do the wash it was even then recommended to have such facilites away from the main hospital building or at least far away from patient care as possible. All that heat, water, moisture, smells, etc aren't something you'd want wafting into the wards especially before modern air conditioning was invented.

The first hospital I ever worked in, the laundry was located apart from the main building. A great big gothic thing it was, and considered it a "treat" to be sent by the head nurse to fetch clean linens when the floors were out.

At one time hospitals had few other choices but to do their own wash. Commercial laundries would probably loved to have the business, but their other customers out of concerns about the spread of germs would probably avoid sending their wash. Before modern germ theory and antibiotics came into being a housewife was considered nearly a slattern if she didn't do everything in her power to prevent illness from entering her home. Even priviate washer women could loose business if word got out they took washing from a home where scarlet fever, diptheria and or any of the other once common infectious diseases broke out.

Commercial laundry equipment is very expensive and in today's economy it makes sense to keep it in full production. Also don't forget the workers have to be paid regardless of there being 50lbs of linen or 500lbs per day. Far easier to send it out.

Today all over the world there are major laundry services that do nothing but hospital/healthcare linens. The best are outfitted with equipment some hospitals can only dream about (barrier washers for instance). Quality control issues can be solved by simply putting the proper person in charge. This usually falls to someone in the nursing service, and or infection control. If laundry comes back from the wash failing to meet certain standards you can bet a phone call will be made.

Many hospitals today also have taken a page from restaurants and hotels by not even owning their own linen. It is rented with a contract service that also provides the laundering as well.

At one time most all hospital's either laundered staff uniforms/clothing (mainly doctors and nurses), but as the cost of the service grew and domestic washing machines (and later dryers) became more common (or the laundromat), gradually the service was withdrawn. As female nursing uniforms moved from long sleeved starched whites to easy care cotton, cotton/synthetic blends or all synthetic textiles, the need for "commercial" laundering was decreased if not eliminated. Indeed the near boil wash temps used by such places actually will harm anything but pure cotton fabrics.

Now that most everyone and their mother wears scrubs on duty, there is little need in some minds to offer laundry service. Mind you in the days when doctors and only certian nurses got to wear scrubs they were laundered by the hospital. That is still true today for those working in certain areas. However in some parts of the world (such as Germany) doctors and nurses do not by and large travel to and from work in uniform (scrubs)as they do here in the states. Changing rooms are provided and the soiled things are sent to the hospital's wash and one picks up a fresh set upon arriving for duty.

 

[arbilab]

Well we know that hospitals are the #1 place to get an infection if you didn't already have one, so obviously SOMEthing isn't exactly working and what should be the experts in disease transmission don't know EVERYthing or alternately don't practice it faithfully.

I wash hands when coming in from the outside world but figure I'm immune to anything that's already in my house, including my own clothes. Haven't been sick at all* in 6 years so whatever I'm doing apparently works for me. (*Nose might run for 24 hours couple times a year, assume that's a passing rhinovirus.)

 

[amyswasher]

On the same lines

Had a health inspector tell me once " It's important to build immunity at home, but in a restaurant you don't know if the next person walking though the door just had a heart transplant, so sanitation is important to the public."

 

[MrX]

230Volts may also play a part.

Older machines in Europe, certainly older ones in Britain and Ireland always had hot and cold fill. However, these older machines also used a lot more water than modern ones.

The fill time factor is a huge issue as a typical machine won't run the water long enough to bleed pipes and get actual hot water as has been mentioned above.

However, the other factor is that US power outlets are traditionally 110V 15amp safely giving you about 1500W absolute max.

European outlets on the other hand, are 230V and machines can be designed to have loads up to 3000W. That makes a huge difference when you are heating water. A typical European washer will pull 2300-2500W when it's heating.

I think perhaps for US designers it was easier to just use a hot water valve than require special wiring like a US electric dryer or stove has.

Also, heating a very large volume of water like that used in a traditional US top loader would take a considerable amount of time even with a 2000W heater where as with a front loader, you're really only heating a fraction of that volume of water. So, from a time and simplicity point of view, it would make more sense to fill a top loader with hot water.

Most European washing is done at 40ºC not 60ºC or boiling temperatures, but the machines all have the option of doing that if you want to *really* clean bed linen or towels for example.

Using disinfectants / anti-bacterials in the wash is not comparable to actually heating the fabric to near boiling point when it comes to killing bacteria and viruses.

Remember, those chemical agents typically kill 99.999% of bugs, it's the fact that they might leave the 0.001% really nasty bugs that is a little worrying.

I won't use them in my kitchen either for that reason. I prefer old-fashioned cleaning and if you do need to sterlise something, mild chlorine bleach solution is the only really safe way. But, for normal day-to-day cleaning it should be unnecessary.

 

[launderess]

Chemcial disenfection when properly done is streets ahead of thermal methods. I'd take my chances with the remaining 0.001% of "germs",versus the much larger colonies that remain after using most methods of heat.

For one thing as with other living things various germs/moulds/bacteria, and so forth are killed by various levels of heat. E coli mostly is done in at temps of 160F for ten minutes, but there are yeasts which would require >180F for twice that long and even then may not totally kill everything.

There is also the slow heating of water in all but the most high powered commercial washers leaves "germs" plenty of time to develop defences.Yes many will die but others that remain to live another day emerge to find the field cleared.

What most persons using chemical disinfectants fail to do is read and follow the directions properly. There are two parts to the system; cleaning, then disenfecting. This applies for thermal methods as well.

Every bottle of registered disenfectant will direct one to clean the surface first, then with a fresh solution (at proper dilution), apply and allow the surface to remain wet for a period of time.Simply wiping things down isn't the same.

Chlorine bleach is such powerful chemical that it is the standard for disenfection. Because it is so inexpensive the stuff is widely used for that purpose.

 

[sudsman]

No Longer any accepted standard temperature for hospital wor

CDC no longer uses 160 for a standard washing temp. They have guidelines for temps as low as 120 depending upon the chemicals used. Most hospital Laundry Managers as myself still use 140 as a min, temp. that coupled with alkali and use of a good sour alone will kill most bacteria. Not to mention chlorine bleach. To save time and water I start most loads right out with 140 hot break wash for 12 min. then follow with a hot rinse and a Suds bleach for 12 mins. I have found that increasing the time from 8 mins to 12 mins allows us to save almost 30% on supplies. When we talk supplies at over 10,000 a month that adds up very quickly.For some of the hospitals that do use the 120 wash the linen does not last as long as the extra bleach needed to insure sanitation effects the life of the linen greatly. Unless a anti chlor is used and most hospital laundries cannot afford the extra cost of the supply. We are all plagued by the same thing
administrators that can only speak three words cut, cut, cut. Linen Replcement cost that run in excess of a million dollars a year. And supply cost that seem to rise almost every mo. This is some of the reasons a large number of hospitals are closing the laundry and outsourceing housekeeping maint. And any other depts that they can . Even Dietary services are now handle by outside contract services at some hospitals now.

 

[MrX]

A boil wash in a European washing machine will hold the clothes at 95ºC i.e. about 200ºF for over an hour.

NOTHING survives it, sometimes not even the clothes lol.

In general it's only used for linen and very sturdy cottons.

Basically the high temperature cottons wash on a typical European machine is a bit like this and takes over two hours!

1) Fill - cold tap water + detergent.
2) Heat and tumble for about 20 minutes to bring the temperature up. This is when the enzymes breakdown stains.
3) Continue heating towards boiling point - activates oxygen bleaching to the maximum level and increases performance of the surfactants while destroying anything biological.
4) Towards the end of the washing phase, most machines will top up with cold water to reduce the temperature to avoid pouring boiling water down the drain to avoid temperature shocks.
5) Spin to remove wash solution.
6) Rinse - cold water.
7) Spin
8) Rinse - cold water
9) Spin
10) Rinse - cold water + fabric softener
11) Final high speed long spin.

 

[MrX]

Oh I forgot!

Most machines also have an option of a pre-wash too.

So, before the wash starts, the washing machine fills with detergent + cold water and does a short, usually 40ºC (104ºF) cycle followed by a spin before it starts the cottons cycle described above.

Also, some machines may do more than just those 3 rinses. It depends on what the programmes is and also on what the machine's control system is like. Some can detect suds and will add extra rinses until the water's clear.

 

[ronhic]

Well it is...

...the longest cycle on my machine...

 

The 95c quick wash - wash, 2 rinses with intermittant spins is 1:46

 

...the full cycle is 2:25 with 3 rinses...

 

Should I add a pre-wash at 30c and super rinse, I get....30c, 20 minute pre-wash, long wash at 95c and 5 rinses....3:10....

 

Items best be very clean after that....

 

[mrboilwash]

Launderess you are so right about Germans having a thing about things being clean.
Sometimes I am really amazed about the greyish sheets and towels provided in some not so cheap hotels in the States. Same is often true for some fastfood chains in the States. One is spick and span and a few hundred yards down the street the next one of the same brand is often found in a condition that would never pass public health inspection over here.

As to sanitation of clothes I think to recall a European study which was posted here some time ago. The one comparing Greek, Spanish and other countrys` laundry habits.
I think there was a conclusion that even when using a powder with activated oxygen bleach there is not much difference in germ reduction in cold and warm water. Things were a little bit better at 60°C but still far away from perfect.

I agree that in most cases there is no need to sanitize clothes for health aspects. But I find it very handy to be able to "boil" clothes in the washer just because things stay fresh for much longer when sanitized. No need to change sheets every other day.

 

[MrX]

Well, in general the aim of cleaning is to reduce the number of bugs to a managable level.

Sterilising items that are going to be used in a normal environment is usually totally unnecessary.

I have some light cotton duvets that can be boil washed and I use them as mattress protectors. They are the only items that I regularly wash at 90ºC

In general, the boil wash option is nice to have, but it's rarely used.

I still prefer the idea of being able to heat-clean something than relying on chemical agents which will typically remain in the clothes, and be worse for the environment.

The vast majority of laundry in this country however is done on a 40ºC cotton cycle. That's generally what most people use for everything and it's more than sufficient and produces great results.

Greying whites is caused by dye transfer, not dirt. Nobody is THAT filthy!
So, to keep your whites white, just wash them separately.
it's amazing how many people just stuff everything into the washing machine, select 40ºC possibly throw in a "colour catcher" and hope for the best