Best dishwasher detergent/ additives for hard water?

[dustin92]

We have a mid 90's Kenmore Ultra wash dishwasher and very hard water, what is the best detergent to use and what additives? I have used Finish powerball tabs, and Finish Gelpacs, Cascade Actionpacs, Institutional formula Cascade (with bleach and phosphates). I have to use either Lemishine or Finish power up in every wash or the dishes are left filmy, crusty, and disgusting. The Finish Powerball tabs seem to be the best performing so far, with the Finish Gelpacs coming in second. Cleaning wise, the Cascade actionpacs were the best, but I bought the gain scent and after a few washes, the dishes started tasting like gain. Those are now sitting in the cupboard and will probably be thrown out. The institutional Cascade comes in last, leaving a nasty film on everything and doesnt clean very well. I want to find a detergent that will clean well and not leave filmy residue, and if an additive is needed, can you recommend something cheaper than lemishine? ($3.99 for a container that might last two weeks.) Thanks!

 

[launderess]

Institutional Cascade

Is good old fashioned chlorine bleach containing dishwasher detergent. While chlorine bleach and break down protein it is no match for modern enzymes.

The best solution for using an automatic dishwasher in very hard water conditions would be to install a mechanical water softener. Failing that there is the old standby of phosphates (STPP) added to the each of the wash and rinse water cycles.

Personally I'd go for the mechanical water softener as your laundry probably would benefit from being done in softer water as well.

 

[dustin92]

We are planning on installing a water softener, all our neighbors have them, but the financial department is not going to allow that for a while.

 

[launderess]

Have You Considered Finding One On the Cheap at eBay

Then doing the work yourselves?

 

[polkanut]

What is your water heater temp set at?  You might need to turn up the heat so to speak.  How hard is your water?  Ours is medium hard here.

 

[dustin92]

The water is very hard, and I havent looked at the water heater, but I would guess that it is at least 150-160 degrees.

 

[volsboy1]

I use Bubble Bandit dishwasher detergent and it works great..It has close to 9% of Phosphates in it they list as commercial detergent so they can get away with it..I put one table spoon in the main wash and half that in the prewash and it works great.My dishes have that soft clean to them that I love...

 

[dustin92]

Cool, I will definitely order some when I use up most of what I have here. (anything is worth a try!)

 

[aamassther]

I've been using Somat powder in my Miele lately. It's expensive, $20 for a 60 load bag, but worth it. You can order it from productswithstyle.com and get free shipping. Our water isn't quite as hard as yours in Jackson, but 30% PO4 in the formula works a treat!

 

[qsd-dan]

I use Bubble Bandit dishwasher detergent....

Uh-oh

More dishwasher detergent to add to my stash, lol.

I have very hard water and recently purchased some institutional cascade. It's cleaning better (most notable on glasses) than the Finish Quantum tabs with a teaspoon of STPP added, but it's also leaving an annoying residue on the dishes.

I hope this is the cure all.

Thanks Wes!

 

[volsboy1]

I love the detergent and I use at both places the farm which has the best tasting water I have ever tasted but, it is very hard its almost like it is carbonated or something.I have L.G. dishwasher and barley scrape them let alone rinse anything.This is the best dishwasher

detergent I have ever used. I leave tons of food in the bottom and set it to normal wash and everything is perfect.I know everybody hates L.G. dishwasher's but mine has been great for me..

 

[volsboy1]

Here they are afterwards

 

[dustin92]

At our old house, the water was very soft, we used finish quantum tabs and nothing else. No lemishine, no rinse aid. We had a BOL GE dishwasher and it did fine. Here we have tried the finish quantum tabs, but like everything else, they leave the glasses and plastics filmy. At one point a few years ago (before we bought the house, but were here to visit) the dishwasher had stopped functioning completely from the scale buildup. The heating element was encrusted in about 1/4 inch of crud, the racks were crusty, and the whole interior was coated in crud. I remember hearing that it had started overflowing as well. (I think the water level cutoff was crusted too) At that point, the dishwasher was less than ten years old. I think they ended up soaking and running multiple washes with CLR. I cleaned the spray arms before it got to the end of the mess, the top spray arm was completely blocked, and the bottom one wouldnt spin because the buildup on the underside was dragging on the filter. It was always used with prewashed dishes and a heavy dose of Cascade gel. I actually got told off once for not using soap on the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher! Since we bought the house, I never pre rinse and it works fine.

 

[qsd-dan]

This is the best dishwasher detergent I have ever used.

Whoo-hoo! I like the sound of that.

 

Gonna order some right meow.

 

Thanks again Wes!

 

[mitch]

Gotta tell you

After perusing this thread, I lucked up and sourced some commercial powder containing both phosphates and chlorine! It was amazing as it actually removed tomato stains on some plastic ware. I will be bringing my mother a jug of this. She is in Savannah where the water is hard as a rock and every time I talk to her she is telling me how poorly her KA tall tub is doing on dishes. She did notice improvement after using the Finish with power ball.

Thank you all for the insight!

 

[frigilux]

I've switched to Cascade Complete w/Dawn pacs, which does a great job on pots/pans. It also doesn't discolor aluminum or leave that white powdery residue on plastics. They're a bit spendy, but I never need to use more than one in a cycle, even for really soiled pots/pans.

Finish Powerball Tabs were my former daily driver, but the Cascade Complete pacs do a better job on pots/pans, and doesn't leave residue on plastics. Highly recommended.

Remember that standard-issue Cascade Pacs are not the same as Cascade Complete pacs.[this post was last edited: 9/27/2012-19:45]

 

[frigilux]

Wes-- I'm with you in praising LG dishwashers. I have the TOL from 2008 and it is the best dishwasher I've ever owned. LG dishwashers are notorious for having reliability problems, but mine has endured very heavy use without a problem (knock on wood!).

 

[mysteryclock]

Our water here is rock-hard and we previously had to use Lemishine in every load of the KA to keep things from turning gray, and even then I don't think it was doing a very good job. When the KA to catch on fire and was replaced with a Bosch I made sure I got one with a built-in softener, and it has been nothing short of a miracle! EVERYTHING comes out perfect - glasses feel "smoother" than they did before, old items I thought were etched came out shiny as new...remarkable. I use the Finish Quantum Powerballs and nothing else now. I think I'm averaging 3-4 months per box of Somat salt (at probably 7-9 loads a week) which is pretty cheap.

 

[mitch]

Cascade Complete

I like this--we have been using this as our daily use detergent for a long time and have been pleased with it. I have not tried the Dawn version as we usually buy the Costco sized regular. Our daily driver is a Kenmore Elite machine purchased in 2001 and has been an awesome performer-- no complaints with this guy.

 

[jerrod6]

I guess Cascade Complete Pacs are ok as long as you don't mind eating off of dishes  and drinking water from glasses smelling like a candy cane mixed with too much honey, then mixed with brown sugar, then mixed with vanilla then  mixed with insecticide then mixed with cheap smelling perfume. I tried these  ONE time and sent the remaining pacs to the trash. They clean but oh the smell.... Just can't stand my dishes smelling like this. 

 

[dustin92]

That is my opinion exactly of cascade action pacs. I bought the Gain scent, it was horribly strong.

 

[volsboy1]

Thanks Eugene I appreciate that.I have heard of nothing but nightmares about L.G. but mine is a great dishwasher and I put it

through hell.It is worlds better than my 2010 G.E. Monogram that cost a ton and can clean and hold alot more.I use mine  like

a old Maytag Reverse Rack.You get total water coverage with pots up there and if yours is like mine it increases power when it switches to the top wash arms.I still have to use my Bubble Bandit detergent though that stuff works killer no white film or anything and that wonderful soft-clean that I love so much.I poured in a pint of dry cat food in that machine one time and filled the main cup and after alot of grinding at first on normal wash the dishes were spotless at the end..Yes guys

I know I am crazy but you

only live once...

 

[qsd-dan]

Bubble Bandit

Order came in and I finally conjured up enough dishes to run a heavy load. WOW, this detergent works FANTASTIC!

The scent is a bit strong (could even smell it during the wash cycles), but it isn't annoying.....at least yet. No powdery residue left over, like the Institutional Cascade was leaving behind. I'm curious to see if it'll descale the heating element with long term use.

For those with a large family and a tight budget, it might be a bit expensive, but like everything in life, you get what you pay for. It claims that there's no need for a rinse aid, but I'm not quite sure I buy that just yet. I still had juuuuuuust a hint of streaking on a couple of silverware pieces, but it could also be descaling the tub and innards. All glass items were completely streak free.

I highly recommend this detergent for those who have anything but soft water.

 

[volsboy1]

I had a feeling you would like it

.I save money in the long run when I added it up.I buy the box with 5 bags that is 19 pounds for 45 bucks no tax and free shipping.The only store bought brand that works kinda is Finnish Quantum and I had to use two each time one for the prewash and one for the main wash and that adds up quick..

 

[whirlykenmore78]

Institutional Cascade

Works beautifully in hard or soft water just adjust the amount used based on the machine and water hardness.  I have even used it in a POS Hotpoint and 25 grain water with sparkling results.  Add it to a good DW with soft water and you better wear sunglasses to unload the glassware. 

WK78

 

[frigilux]

Well, I just did something I've never done before: Sniffed dishes as they came out on the dishwasher. Jerrod and Dustin both noted their disdain for Cascade Complete Pacs due to the residual scent left on dishes and glassware. While I have no plastic tableware, I do use a lot of those plastic Zip-Loc food storage containers (with the blue lids). I ran a load using the Normal Cycle (no options). I smelled nothing on the dishes or the plastic food containers at the end of the cycle.

Next, I went to Cascade's website and looked at various products, as well as user reviews. While most reviews raved about the pacs' cleaning abilities, there were quite a number which lodged the same complaint Jerrod and Dustin had: Residual smells on dishes that affected the taste of food.

Two of the products (one Lavender-scented and one Dustin mentioned with Gain) touted their strong scents in the ad copy.

So, while I noticed no scent left on my dish load, plastics included, there are obviously people who have had the same experience as Jerrod and Dustin. And, obviously, Cascade makes some of their products so strong-scently that it will get your dinner guests talking about it. Yikes!

Here's what Cascade has to say about the Lavender-scented pacs:

 

[dustin92]

Well, somebody shoot me in the head now. I bought another variety of cascade tabs. We needed dishwasher detergent and I couldnt rub enough pennies together to order bubble bandit. I havent run a load yet, but I will be shortly. I was trying to decide between Cascade complete action pacs and Method's "Smarty Dish" tablets. I have never tried those before. I ended up with the complete action pacs in the lemon scent.

 

[dustin92]

I ran a load, no challenging stuck on food, but I was impressed. The scent was not nearly as strong as the gain version. (most of the gain tabs did a great job of cleaning the garbage disposal after a leak under the kitchen sink caused them to become soggy) I didnt use any lemishine, and the glasses came out streak free. I will keep using them if the performance stays good.

 

[rayjay]

Dishwasher Detergent Scents

Whatever happened to the nice clean scents from years ago?
Like Cascade....the slight scent of chlorine, Finish, etc??

The dischwasher always smelled clean, the dishes came out clean too.

There are way too many flowery stinky disgusting scents in dishwasher, laundry detergents and fabric softners. Manufacturers should concentrate more on the cleaning ability not the discgusting scents they are producing.

 

[rayjay]

Bubble Bandit

Wes....Thanks so much for the information. I just ordered the 2 bags. The second bag is half off.

I have mechanically softened water and an Electrolux dishwasher. I use Finish Quantum which is about the best for no phosphate detergent. Everthing comes out shining and no streaks, but there should be no excuse for peanut butter being stuck to a spoon or knife. (lol)

BTW: What is the scent like?

Thank You

Ray