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Thank you, Keven.

Panthera, Thanks much for your previous (tasteful) post. I had been thinking exactly the same thing.

Folks, if you wanna take the moral high ground, please do so. Please!

Just to restate it - not that it matters - I see so little difference between these two candidates that it isn't funny.

What EXACTLY have the dems done for gay rights anyway? Or women's rights?

What EXACTLY have the repubs done for gay rights anywa? Or women's rights?

It has been the TIRELESS efforts of the American people, with a (tiny) amount of help from some courageous politicians ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE that has made changes for the better. Period.

I would think that educating your coworkers, people you know (not necessarily 'friends' as who'd want friends who didn't like you 'cause of your orientation wouldn't be my style) would be good in and of itself. But leaving things to politicians is the way to unhappiness, apoplexy, and early death.

Nate
 
Well I heard that McCain was looking for a running mate that was close to his age---there weren't any. .

This is why Mama said we should never discuss Politics, Sex, or Religion in polite public. It soon isn't too polite anymore.

I have always felt that the Presidential race shouldn't have a Pres/VP ticket. There should just be two candidates. The one that wins the election is the President. The other one is the Vice-president. Now talk about bi-partisan. BTW, as I was typing this I had a thought. Is our current political system homopartisan? and are they really bi-partisan or hetropartisan.

Discuss.
 
I read two or three days ago that only 28% of all individuals are eligible to enter the US Army. The Army is doing 'prep schools' to help kids who don't have GEDs get them.

And from the same article, only 3 in every 10 applicants meet minimum U.S. military standards to join. Hence the GED prep schools. What does THAT say?


What's he doing? Trying to throw the election? (tongue firmly in cheek)

That's EXACTLY what went through my mind when I learned of McCain's VP choice!

Dr. Laura...

Man, I haven't heard THAT name in quite some time? Is she even still around?
 
that's the military point I was making.

That was the point I was making about the folks attempting to join the army.

However, the article I read was that it was academic and other standards, and it specifically mentioned the fact that most young people were couch potatoes...and that physical training was also important.
 
PeterH770:

"Now all of a sudden a bunch of Democrats are screaming "Family Values! She should stay home with her kids!" Jeez, don't try to get all Newt on us now!"

Not trying to get all Newt, just trying to point out something that I think is important - the difference between rhetoric and reality.

Republicans have played the "family values" card for a very long time now, stressing traditional family structure. In this election, they seem to feel it's expedient to take a woman away from a large family with a special-needs child. I don't think they can - or should be allowed to - have it both ways.

It's hard enough to juggle five kids and a regular job, let alone jobs as complex and all-consuming as running a state or the nation. "What 'family values' are being observed here?" is the question, and I think it's fair to ask it.

I would be the last person to cry out that Sarah Palin should stay at home with her kids, but there is such a thing as balance between home life and job (for both sexes), and I don't think a good balance for the Palin family is going to come out of going after this particular job. It's my opinion that given the history of Republican pronouncements on "family values", it's legitimate to ask why suddenly it's okay for the Repubs to disrupt a family's structure so that John McCain can have the most politically correct running mate available.
 
perhaps the bigger question is:

What will Ms. Palin's husband do, if McCain gets elected?

Will he:

1. Stay in Alaska and keep working (I think I read he's an oil rigger?)
2. Come to Washington and be a house husband?
3. Come to Washington and do something else?

Of course, it is possible that they have live in relatives who care for kids?

Ultimately, NOBODY has a corner on 'family values.' Some people just THINK they do - and they need to be reminded otherwise.
 
Peter, I wouldn't put on my dancing slippers just yet if I were you....

~~~~
PRINCETON, NJ -- The latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking finds Barack Obama moving to an eight percentage point lead over John McCain, 49% to 41%.

Obama's speech seen by 38 million viewers

~~~~~
NEW YORK (AP) — Barack Obama's acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention was seen by more than 38 million people.

Nielsen Media Research said more people watched Obama speak than watched the Olympics opening ceremony in Beijing, the final "American Idol" or the Academy Awards this year. Obama talked before a live audience of 80,000 people in Denver.

His TV audience nearly doubled the amount of people who watched John Kerry accept the Democratic nomination to run against President Bush four years ago. Kerry's speech was seen by just over 20 million people.

Obama's audience might be higher, since Nielsen didn't have an estimate for how many people watched Obama on PBS or C-SPAN Thursday night.

~~~~
Finally, Enjoy this example of the "ready to lead at a moment's notice leadership" that we can expect of the McCain/Palin party.

 
Careful where you're dancing, you might slip in the ANWR

According to the article, "she came under investigation..." by state legislators and THEN ordered the investigation into the firing of the trooper. Certainly more details will be forthcoming...

Let's also follow the money trail - as Steve advised earlier today ;-) Well, that just leads us right back to oil. I'm sure we can drill ourselves out of any trouble, let's go! Sarah's on board!

How about a healthy dose of Jeebus? We can teach creationism in schools - science be damned. Sarah's on board!

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html
More slimy, underhanded dealings from the GOP. Another four years of this? Thanks but No Thanks.

http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second...ccains-veep-pick-open-anwr-to-dril-2008-08-29
 
The Other Thing....

....I want to know more about when it comes to Sarah Palin is her time spent as chairman of Alaska's state gas and oil commission.

Funny how that word "oil" keeps popping up when Republicans are the topic....
 
Thanks, Sandy - you hit it spot on with the "family values party" as the GOP has long tried to bill themselves and why the questions that will be asked are not only relevant to Palin but to all families with working parents. I have a special-needs son that I adopted 10 1/2 years ago and while I will never claim to be the "perfect parent" (does that even exist?) I would like to hear her answers as well. It's very difficult to be the only caregiver for one child, I can't imagine how difficult it must be with five. Everyone is cut from different cloth for sure but I could not imagine how a mother could put herself in an extremely high-stress position with a nearly 24/7 schedule and shift the burden of child-rearing onto a spouse and/or other family members, etc. Just isn't adding up for me. Listening to the right-wing talk station on the way home today, women were clogging the phone lines to scream about McSame's choice of Palin. I think it's a desperation choice for McCain...
 
For good or bad the rumors about Sarah (...if I knew her middle name I'd CAPITALIZE it...) are flowing. I read on I believe Huffington, that the rumor floating around is the her latest child is really her 16 year old daughters child. Her daughter was absent from school for months, and Sara announced she was 7 m. preg and shocked everyone. Now that would be a story. Odds are it's false, vetting her would have turned that up and I'd hope the R's wouldn't let that slip by.

If the R's crank up the slime machine I think the D's are in a very good position to respond. I would truly like to heed Obama's call last night for civility but I think it's too late, too much depends on this race.
 
Palin

I have one thing to say after hearing just a few sentences from her: SHRILL!

I see this as a total Dan Quayle bust. Oh wait--Bush-Quayle won. Haven't the bonehead red-staters learned anything? Oh wait--they're boneheads.

So she's been Governor for less than 2 years, and before that was mayor of a town of 6,500. Wayell hyup, Vern, that thar Palin gal shore is qualerfied to be co-mander in chief seein' as how Mc Cayan could up 'n' drop dayed on uhhhs, him bein' 72 'n' all.

And she's on the level just like W, trying to get a state trooper fired because her sister was going through a messy divorce with him, and now she's under investigation for it. She's good people! But the real question is, can she spell potatoe?

I'm liking the direction this race is going a whole lot better than I was yesterday!
 
Shane . . .

I hope this Palin bomb has knocked you to your senses, but regardless I'd like to hear your thoughts.
 
Well, for me, it's boiled down to voting for the lesser of two evils. Obama scares me, but McCain scares me much more!

Now if we could have had a Hillary candidate who would lock up the borders and send illegals home, THAT would have been my candidate!!!

Chuck (not bothering to neither duck nor run as I believe in my opinion)
 
At least we're all clear on one thing: McCain's judgment is every bit as horrible as George W. Bush's.
 
I hate to be a nag, but why - if you supported Hillary Clinton - would Obama "scare" you? Their policy stands were 99.9999% identical. The only real difference was health care: Hillary wanted single payer (i.e. Medicare/Medicaid - which are great programs) and Obama wanted "reform" (a nebulous something that would allow the private insurance companies to remain in business) In that respect, I was all for Hillary, but think Obama would see the light of reason.

Seriously, all primary drama and soundbyte culture aside, they are of a like mind. Read their policy statements.
 
Dan,

Policy statements are just that. Policy statements. Political rhetoric. How about the candidates affiliations outside the office? As one example, the "church" Obama belonged to until he was forced to resign from it because it was too detremental to his campaign for him to stay in it? Can't tell me that the first time that that "reverend" was spewing racist content was when he was observed/recorded in the last couple of years!!!

And let's not forget that Hillary was arguably the strongest 1st lady as far as being politically involved. She had her own experience to draw from and would have had her former President husband as First Man to support her!!!! How did she not get the nomination???

Hell, I'm actually a pretty conservative democrat, being against abortion, and all for throwing illegals in jail or sending them back to where they came from (if they're truly illegal). But, supporting a man who was a +/-20 year member of a racist "church" is less distasteful to me than supporting McBush. Not pleasant, just less distasteful.

Chuck
 
Chuck, I can't believe you actually buy into that stupid church controversy. Obama "belonged" to that church probably as much as I "belong" to Saint Peters Parish in Council Bluffs: After all, he was in the Illinois house (in Springfield) or the U.S. Senate (in DC) for most of the last ten years. Prior to that, it was probably just a membership, like a lot of people are with churches (strictly Easter and Christmas members)

If you want to talk religion, what about Bush (or Clinton, or the previous Bush, or Reagan for that matter) and their church affiliations? Bush claims to be a Methodist, yet seldom attends - and has been rejected by most theologians of his faith. Clinton was (I think) a Baptist, yet seldom went to church. McCain seems to be both Baptist AND Episcopalian, depending on who asked. All of those denominations have their crazies in the pulpit. Can you honestly tell me that if the Reverend Wright had never surfaced, you would have a different view of Obama?

As for First Ladies, Hillary Clinton was commendable, but hardly the strongest: Eleanor Roosevelt stands above them all, the second Mrs. Wilson a close second - but only because she was covering for her husband's stroke. After that would probably come Dolly Madison. Nancy Reagan fits in there somewhere as well.

Senator Clinton failed to get the nomination because she didn't get enough delagtes - probably because her campaign staff was inept and/or conniving, and she couldn't manage them. It's as simple as that.

If you want to ignore policy statements, and just go along with gut feelings and the emotions on the TV, that's your choice - but that's why the country is in the state that it is. Bush laid out his positions clearly. But enough Americans ignored all that, and thought that he (a dry drunk) would be a great guy to have a beer with. Do you really want to be part of that tradition of naivete?

Electing a president is a four year commitment: You can't just vote and think your job is done - you have to hold him (or her) to account. The right wing knows that. Most other Americans unfortunately don't. Hopefully, they'll wake up.
 
Dan~

with all due respect, you just don't get it do you? Chuck, as always, I am in full agreement with you. The fact that Obama sat in that church for 20+ years and has CLOSE and PERSONAL ties with Rev. Jeremiah "God Damned America" Wright, DOES and SHOULD matter! The issue is judgment here. Same thing goes for Obama's ties to the domestic terrorist, William Ayers, Louis "Judaism is a gutter religion" Farrakhan and Tony Rezko. I got news for the nay sayers. This issue will continue to resonate with many moderate to conservative Democrats as well as some independents. If you think not, you are sadly misinformed. My grandmother always said if you lie down with the dogs, you may wake up with fleas. When you are running for the most powerful job in our country,judgment does matter, at least for me it does.

I watched the speech last night during the Super Bowl, I mean The DNC, and thought many parts of it were eloquent and well stated. I can now understand to some degree why many people are excited about Obama. This is history and I think it is great to see a minority come this far. On the surface he is very appealing to many.He has a beautiful family and an interesting biography. I get this..

This, however doesn't mean he is ready to assume the most powerful office in our country. Experience may not matter to some on this site, but it does for me. Especially when we are in the middle of 2 wars, the crisis in Pakistan and Georgia, The looming threat of Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, etc.. etc. 9/11 was personally a very traumatizing experience for my family. I sometimes feel as if the Democratic Party has forgotten about that horrible day. I was dissapointed to see not ONE reference to that fateful day during the DNC. It's like a distant memory to some. I want our country to remain safe and protected. John McCain gives me assurance he will do just that.

I would have loved to vote Democrat straight down the line this year, but sadly I feel my party has abandoned the moderate to conservative wing, in favor of the far left liberal wing. Whatever the outcome of this historic election, obviously I will accept it and support the new President. Honestly, with either candidate, it will be an improvement compared to Bush

In the end we all have to vote our conscience. My conscience leads me to John McCain.
 
Hi Ralph~

Regarding Gov. Sarah Palin. I have said for some time to my partner that she would be a good fit for McCain. The is red meat for the GOP base and will ensure they turn out for McCain.

While I don't agree with her on some issues, she was his most logical choice. Obama’s people are already trying to smear Palin’s name. They did their homework and were quite eager to post stories about Palin being investigated for pressuring to have her ex-brother-in-law fired. What they didn’t bother mentioning was that this same guy was caught driving under the influence while in a patrol car, that he was hunting out of season, I believe that’s also called poaching, and he tasered his own son. They also forgot to mention that an ongoing investigation has yet to find any wrongdoing on Palin’s part. I am certain she has been fully vetted on this and other issues that could arise.

I am interested to see how she stacks up to blowhard Biden in the debates. That should be interesting.
 
Hi Ralph~

Regarding Gov. Sarah Palin. I have said for some time to my partner that she would be a good fit for McCain. The is red meat for the GOP base and will ensure they turn out for McCain.

While I don't agree with her on some issues, she was his most logical choice. Obama’s people are already trying to smear Palin’s name. They did their homework and were quite eager to post stories about Palin being investigated for pressuring to have her ex-brother-in-law fired. What they didn’t bother mentioning was that this same guy was caught driving under the influence while in a patrol car, that he was hunting out of season, I believe that’s also called poaching, and he tasered his own son. They also forgot to mention that an ongoing investigation has yet to find any wrongdoing on Palin’s part. I am certain she has been fully vetted on this and other issues that could arise.

I am interested to see how she stacks up to blowhard Biden in the debates. That should be interesting.
 
Oh Shane, I get it. And I get you.

"Experience may not matter to some on this site, but it does for me. Especially when we are in the middle of 2 wars, the crisis in Pakistan and Georgia, The looming threat of Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, etc."

Who started those wars, Shane? Who caused that crisis? Where, after six long years, is Osama Bin Laden? Why is Al Qaeda still a threat to us, Shane? Why is the Taliban still a threat? How many billions of dollars have we thrown at this Shane? Why no results yet?

"9/11 was personally a very traumatizing experience for my family. I sometimes feel as if the Democratic Party has forgotten about that horrible day. I was dissapointed to see not ONE reference to that fateful day during the DNC. It's like a distant memory to some."

I've got news for you, Shane. It wasn't just "your family" that was traumatized on 9-11, it was all of us. But some people - rational people, who don't rely on simple-minded soundbytes - expect more from our leaders, and don't feel the need to bring up 9-11 as some sort of crutch to beat the American people with. Again, Shane, where is Osama Bin Laden? Why have we spent billions on finding him, spent more time than it took us to fight two fronts in WWII, with no sign of him?

"I want our country to remain safe and protected. John McCain gives me assurance he will do just that. "

How, Shane? How does John McCain assure you of that? By supporting a stupid war, started on absolutely no justification, that has killed thousands of people, and cost of billions of unaccounted for dollars? By appointing a ditz of a Vice-Presidential candidate, whom he has apparently never met before yesterday, who has no idea of what a Vice-President does? How does he make you feel safe, Shane?

How will we remain "safe and protected", when we've been financing two wars on credit? What makes us safe when your candidate says that he's be happy with us there for a hundred years? How will we pay for that, Shane?

All of these facts are staring you in the face, but you fall back on some over-hyped story of a minister on Chicago's south side, because that's about the only thing you have to fall back on. That makes it all OK.

Oh yeah - I get you.
 
don't feel the need to bring up 9-11 as some sort of cru

I do agree 100% with that part, Dan. Hell, even Family Guy spoofed it. All Lois had to say for an answer was "9-11" and the crowd went nuts applauding.

Shane, I don't think anyone's forgotten about it, but I don't think there's a need to bring it up unnecessarily. As long as we've learned from it and are doing what we need to to make sure it doesn't happen again, that's the important thing. Now, if only we were true that we were actually doing that. Why hasn't Obama Bin Laden been found after nearly 7 years? Anyone have a day count on how long it took to find Sadaam?

Dan, as far as the religious affiliations of the presidents you named, you're forgetting that none of them were (apparently) members of a church whos leader hates America and "the white man." Whether he attended or not isn't the issue. He was still a member of that "church." And I can't speak of his aforementioned ties to Farrakhan, but if he were, that'd be another nail in the proverbial coffin.

And, yes, I know the mechanics of why Billary didn't win. It was more of a rhetorical WTF.

I also don't believe everything I see and hear on TV or the skewed news. I'm not an idiot. I do take and filter out what I think is hype and exaggeration. The news showing clips of the wing nut spewing his hate sermons was overkill. It didn't need to be on every 10 minutes. But the fact that this seemingly very intelligent man with a career in politics and aspirations of the presidency didn't cut from this "church" long ago sticks in my craw.

And as far as my view on Obama if that story had never come out, I remember when he spoke at (I think it was) Gore's acceptance. I was caught up in his speach. Not just the words, but his strength and determination. I thought to myself, "Wow, this man's gonna be president one day," and even mentioned it to Rich when he called on his way home that evening. Unfortunately the more I see of him the less I trust him.

"You can't just vote and think your job is done - you have to hold him (or her) to account. The right wing knows that."

Knowing and acting are two dfferent things. Have they held the idiot Bush accountable? NO!!!!!

That's all. We all have opinions.

Chuck
 
Dan,~you know what?

If somebody doesn't agree with you, they are ALWAYS on the wrong side of the issues. I have never encounted a member on this site with such a need to always be right. Always.. have the last word.
Your posts are condescending to say the least and I am FINISHED responding to any questions you may have unless you can show me some respect for my opinions. To debate me is fine, and I welcome that. To talk down to me like you are Mr Superiority on the issues is another. We all have opinions Dan, not just you.

Oh, and by the way..... Yes, 9/11 was a traumatic event for every American citizen that loves this country.

Tell me Dan, was your mother on an American Airlines flight that fateful morning when planes were being highjacked and flown into buildings? Can you imagine the fear to think for one split second that a loved one could be in harms way?

Did your sister call you hysterical crying because she personally witnessed the attack on the South Tower and feared for her boyfriend's life?

Did you lose any former classmates on that horrible day?

I will be glad to address any questions other members may have regarding my opinions or posts. All I ask if you you disagree with me, to be respectful about it and try not to judge me personally.

Oh, and one last thing...I get you too.
 
Far left liberals

Shane
a couple of times you have referred to the Democrats as far left liberals.

They may be a lot of things but they are not far left.

If you don't mind a view from an outsider looking in, one remarkable thing about the US political system is that there is so little between the two parties. You have a choice of right wing or even further right wing. You should look a little beyond your own borders to get a little perspective.

We have a similar situation in AU, we changed government last year and had some necessary changes early on, but it seems to be drifting back to more of the same. We have the "more left" party in charge now, but many of their actions of late are echoes of the "more right" party we threw out.

as an aside - can anyone tell me, at federal elections in the USA do you use a preferential vote? (do you indicate numbers next to all the candidates' names, or do you just put a mark next to one person's name?)

Chris.
 
Good God! Sounds like the sound bites from Faux News!

The use of 9/11 belongs to the republican party. They milk it every four years.
We all felt the pain of what happened, but I am glad the left never seized 9/11 for political gain. I think it is disgusting how the right goes on about keeping the country safe, when all they did is waste money and line the pockets on their own kind in the process. (no bid contracts anyone??)
What ever happened to Bin Laden anyway??

As far as churches go, they all preach discrimination in one form or another. And each "brand" of "church" teaches that their *brand* is the right one, and that every other "church" is the wrong one. They cannot even find unity among themselves.
 
Well...

Drive by...

I really don't like any of them!

Can't there just be someone who...

1) Doesn't worry about what a woman does with her own body. ( none of your damn business)

2) Doesn't worry about who marries who. (none of your damn business)

3) Makes the fully capable that can work ,WORK. Instead of tax payers money paying for them to live for next to nothing. While they have cable and nice cars. ( should be our business )

4) If you cross the fence and get caught, throw them back until you do it right. That way they pay taxes like everyone else. ( should be our business )



Just a few.

The confused one, like usual!
 

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