dishwasher tabs and packets

[kqkenmore]

Well I have had 2 repairs in 6 months on a brand new high end Kenmore Elite dishwasher and Friday Sears replaced the pump and the motor and the repairman was mad he told me the first time that I was not to use the dishwaher packets but he said that because you have so many put it to go ahead and finish them off.He told me to use Cascade Powder 2 Tbsp on in each cup because with the packets they do not put anything in the first wash and put too much in the second and the grease and food in the first wash is not getting disloved and is lodging in the pump and filter he made me look at it and it was bad.I was using the Cascade action packs (complete and with Dawn)and 7th Generation lemon and Finish Quantium.He said that this time before you start to use the dishwasher get some Cascade Powder with Phosphates and use one Tbsp per chamber in the dispenser and do it now no more packets or tabs. Has anyone else had this experence?

 

[nmassman44]

That doesnt make any sense to me. The pacs dissolve. I use them all the time in my Miele and never have an issue. My thinking is that your dishwasher has other issues other than what he is telling you. Oh and good luck in finding Cascade with Phosphates. Around here in Mass they are no more. Once in awhile I will find a stray box and that was a month ago. With the repairman's thinking I am willing to bet he will make another housecall. So when there is no more Cascade with phosphates then what?!? And thats how I would put it to him. I wonder how many other Kenmores are like that....

 

[kqkenmore]

I agree with you

I am sure that you are right this will not be the last time I will see sears but it will be the last dishwasher that I buy for them.At least the last kenmore.

 

[mrb627]

My Kenmore Elite

The pump on my Kenmore Elite siezed 2 weeks outside of warrantee. Repair was gonna cost me close to 500. Decided to pitch it out. Of course it was right before Thanksgiving too and I was expecting a house full of guests for a week.

That was the last of the Kenmore brand for me.

Malcolm

 

[circlew]

Kenmore Elite

Who makes these machines for Sears? I've heard some of them are KitchenAid, and some Bosch. What are the first three digits of the model number?

 

[whirlcool]

We had a Kenmore DW we bought back around 1990. After two years the trim was falling off of the door and the door seal needed to be replaced. At three yeas the tub rusted through and dumped all the water into the motor when it was running. Talks about fireworks!

And this was not a BOL machine, either. We paid $489.00 for it.
We've bought Maytag ever since.

 

[passatdoc]

I once bought a box of Cascade gel packs for my parents' kitchen but then found they were too fat for the dispenser door on their KA (about five years old) to close/latch properly. I went back to the store the next day and bought them some Finish (Electrasol) tabs which are slim enough to fit properly in their DW dispenser. That's what they use now, Finish Powerball tabs.

I brought home the Cascade gel packs for use in my Bosch DW, where the dispenser is somewhat deeper and into which the gel packs could fit. I saw no difference in cleaning power or performance vs. Finish, and resumed using Finish once the gel packs were all gone.

Several months ago, reacting to a rumor that phosphates were to be removed from DW detergent, I went to Costco and bought two huge 100 tab boxes of Finish with the red powerball. Then I read here that the phosphate ban was by state and that states with lots of rivers were more likely to ban phosphates. So far the stores in my area still sell phosphate DW soap. Given that our sewage is treated and then goes into the ocean, it may be that phosphates are less of an issue than in areas where the rivers are used for waste treatment.

 

[retropia]

We've not had any problems like this with our Kenmore-made-by-Whirlpool Ultra Wash dishwashers, either the 12-year-old model or the new one I installed a few months ago.

I've been using phosphated Cascade Action-Pacs for over a month, and they seem to clean as well as the phosphated bulk powder.

It sounds like a design flaw and/or manufacturing defect with this particular Kenmore Elite. I don't know who makes the Elite model for Kenmore.

 

[nurdlinger]

Why couldn't you

use the action pack in the dispenser section with the lid and use some powder in the other section? You would have to stock both kinds, but that seems hardly a drawback.

 

[kqkenmore]

use the action pack in the dispenser section with the lid an

I have done that before and it is too much detergent because the action pac will suds up and about overflow the dishwasher.I have tried that in the past and that is what happened was concerened that I would burn out the motor.
I donot mind having diffrent products I do now cascade powder and the action packs and finish quantum and some cascade complete gel.

passatdoc- the only Finish product that works here is the Quantum tabs but the ban is on phosphates it is this month everywhere it is the detergent manufactures that are doing it I about got into an argument with the woman at cascade pg about this because as far as I know there is not one in tn either. Ijust hope that the Kroger where I go does not run out before I get my free Cascade coupons because I am going to go and stock up.Cascade just seems to work better here so that is what I have used for years.

CircleW- this kenmore elete was the kitchen aid equvelent I bought it because the other Kenmore elete that I had started to make strange sounds and I gave it to a friend the does not appreciate it I told her that I am about to go and reposes it because it was much better than this new one.The one that I have now was on clearence 900.00 dollars reduced to 300.00.

I want to thank you for the post as I sit here with a sink ful of dishes I say screw sears and Iam going to use the action packs and if they screw up then they can fix the dishwasher that is why i have that contract on it for.

 

[countryguy]

I have a Kitchen Aid that is about 3 years old. I use a Finish tab in the main dispenser and Cascade powder in the other. I run the dishwasher 2-3 times per week. A friend purchased the same dishwasher about 6 months after me, uses a Finish tab in the main dispenser only and only runs the dishwasher about once a month or when she has the family over and lots of dishes. About 6 months ago the dishwasher would not drain. I disconnected the drain hose where it connects to the sink drain pipe. The drain pipe connector was plugged solid with grease. Would using the normal cycle and only filling the main dispenser and thereby the prewash not having any detergent to break down the grease, etc. have caused this problem?

Gary

 

[retropia]

Carl, do you have a water softener, or is your water naturally soft?

That is the only reason I can think of why you would get lots of suds, when using a Cascade Action Pac in the main wash dispenser, and dishwasher detergent powder in the pre wash dispenser.

I've never experienced a sudsing problem, and that's normally the way I run our dishwasher, with both an Action Pac for the main wash and powder for the pre wash.

-Doug

 

[volsboy1]

I found a Ton of the action packs at Walgreens but you have to pull out and look in the back they had a ton of old stock that is back there.Every type of Cascade if you pull the first 6 boxs or so plenty of old stock..I also found some at Home depot,Lowes, there out there just not at the normal places though... Its night and day difference with Phosphates so I just ordered me 20 pounds of S.T.T.P. Food grade to add... I looked up the stuff in Palmolive Eco Gel that they market it very tree hugging from the bottle,but it has some dangerous stuff so I was thinking that it can't be any good for dishwasher seals... Here is what is in it Ingredient (INCI name) Purpose
Water Consistency
Sodium Carbonate Water Softener
Sodium Silicate pH Control
Sodium Salt of Polyacrylic Acid Controls Thickness
Sodium Hydroxide pH Control (DRAIN-O the Rocky stuff not liquid)
Sodium Hypochlorite Prevents Spotting
Disodium Decyl phenyl Ether Disulfonate Cleaning Agent
Polyquaternium Prevents Spotting
Zinc Chloride Prevents Corrosion
Sodium Stearate Controls Thickness
Fragrance Pleasant Scent
Titanium Dioxide Makes Product Opaque
Sulfuric Acid pH Control

 

[launderess]

CountryGuy

FWIW, when dishwasher detergent tabs first came out we asked our appliance repair person about them. More to the point about only putting detergent (ie, the one tab)in the main compartment only and allowing the first wash to go without any sort of soap.

The man's reply was it shouldn't be done as one has all that greasy, dirty water during the pre-wash being not only sprayed about the dishwasher, but can gunk up the insides as well.

Is this what is causing the problem you mentioned? Cannot be sure, but we never run the first cycle "empty", regardless of the detergent, or it's format. Usually add a small amount of detergent to the first cup, then fill to the line, or just below for the second cup.

Consider also if the dishwasher in question does not heat the wash water for the first cycle, and or it is not very hot, grease and oils will not break down without some sort of surfactant (detergent). It is going to create a slimy mess that though drained may not be totally cleared away by subsequent cycles.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Volsboy1

The ingredients may look scary, but there are reasons for their inclusion in the formulation.

Sulphuric acid and sodium hydroxide both work against each other to balance the pH levels.

Sodium hypochlorite and Polyquaternium compounds are bleaching agents.

Zinc chloride, a salt, prevents glass corrosion.

Titanium dioxide is used in toothpastes.

I find that the UK version of Cascade Actionpacs (Fairy) tends to be to foamy for my machine.

Rather than add additional detergent to the prewash cycle, I took a sharp knife and carefully slit the powder section of the actionpac whilst holding it over the open mainwash dispenser. The powder component was then tipped into the mainwash dispenser. The liquid part was left intact, and placed in the cutlery basket.

This allows detergent to be present in both parts of the wash cycle breaking down grease before the main dispenser opens.

 

[jerrod6]

I am not a fan of pacs and tabs, although I use them from time to time. In my first Miele DW of 1995, the owners manual banned their use because their formulation at that time contained a clay like substance. With my current DW tabs and pacs are OK, but most of them now have a different formula.

The reason I don't like them is that unless they can be broken apart you cannot control the dosage. One tab that can wash a very dirty load of dishes is also used for a very light soil load? -----doesn't make sense to me.

Some of the newer Dw are using low temperature washes in the range of 107 to under 120F. Temps this low may not be able to dissolve greasy build up - it may be removed from the dishes but ends up inside the machine or drain pipes someplace. I try to use a higher temp cycle at least every other week.

 

[kqkenmore]

retropia- This is one thing that I will say that Memphis has is very good water and it is soft so that maybe why the packs foam in the main wash.

Launderess- Your repairman was right it was a hell of a mess that the sears guy took out of the dw so they are both right you need detergent in both of the cups.

Today I tried a load with a Finish quantum pac to see what would happen I put in with the silverware I have not checked the dishwasher yet to see I also used the water boost to see if that would help the sears man recommended that also. I think that also I am going to alternate powder and packets to see if that helps with the problem.

 

[retropia]

Carl, if you have soft water, then I suppose that could be the reason why you're getting suds using the Cascade Action Pacs. They are 2X concentrated. That, plus the lesser amount of water used by new dishwashers, plus your soft water, could mean that it's just too much detergent.

I would continue using the water-heating-boost feature, like you've started doing.

If you want to use up your Action Pacs, I would put one in the main wash dispenser, and then try a tiny amount of powdered dishwasher detergent in the pre-wash dispenser. Try maybe a couple of teaspoons, to get a little detergent action in the pre-rinse, and see if you still have a sudsing problem.

Ultimately, you may want to go with the original suggestion of the repair person: a couple of tablespoons of powdered detergent in the pre-wash dispenser, and a couple of tablespoons of powdered detergent in the main-wash dispenser.

With your soft water, you may not need as much detergent as the Action Pacs (or the Finish pacs/tabs) provide.

 

[supersuds]

I wonder if it might not also work to put some borax in the prewash dispenser, instead of detergent? By itself, it shouldn't cause any suds. Just a thought.

Rolls rapide probably has a good plan since you're in a soft water area; open the packets and divide the dose.