HELLLLPPPPPP!!!! KDS17A is Mis-behavin!!!!

[hoover1060]

I am sorta in a panic...I cooked dinner for Michael and myself today, and made a loaf of banana bread, one of the few sweets Michael will eat.
Once I had everything cooking this afternoon I loaded the Kitchenaid and pushed the "Full Cycle" button and went about cleaning up the kitchen.
Something was different. I've had this 17A for almost 2 years now, and this afternoon I noticed the motor was NOT running while it filled, something it used to do.
It filled, and then silence...for maybe a minute or two.
Then WHOOSH, it started washing and seemed to proceed through the cycle normally.
In that period of silence between fill and wash I freaked. I love this DW, and would hate to have to part with it.
I ran another load after dinner tonight, this time using the Sani-Cycle.
Same thing, no motor during fill, silence, then it kicks in and seems to proceed normally. The only oddity here is the SANI light did not light at the end of the cycle.
Something is not right. Before I potentially damage my beloved machine any more I need some advice.
What could be making the motor cut out? Its never done that before.
HELP!!!

 

[gansky1]

Sounds like you may have a timer problem...
No reason to part with a beloved kitchen-friend, a simple fix.

 

[tlee618]

Not to worry Jeff, all you need to do is go out and get yourself a nice new shinny GE tall tub!!!! LOL

 

[gansky1]

... buy a new GE Tall-Tub

And then sell it on Craigslist to buy a new timer?

Seems like a couple of extra steps there, but we do what we have to!

We're all on the lookout for a Hobart KA for Terry to relieve him of his lackluster GE tall-tub so everyone keep an eye open for a nice one!

 

[gyrafoam]

Jeff-----

contact Brent Aucoin-----he's the wizard when it comes to old dishwashers!

 

[bobbyderegis]

Jeff,
sounds like the timer, a bad contact. Start it, cancel it, and start it again and see what it does. Terry you are too funny!
Bobby in Boston

 

[Unimatic1140]

We're all on the lookout for a Hobart KA for Terry to relieve him of his lackluster GE tall-tub so everyone keep an eye open for a nice one!
We sure are.

Jeff like Greg says it sounds like the timer. I suspect the cam follower bar in the timer for the motor has warped slightly from dirty contacts. The timer needs to be opened up, the contact gently sanded, cleaned and bent back ever so slightly.

Are timers for a vintage but not too vintage model KA like this still available from Whirlpool????

 

[toggleswitch1]

oh Jeff, If I had known I would have sent you my SS tall-tub KitchenAid badged WP.

HA!

 

[hoover1060]

I have not tried to run it today

frankly I am too upset to even try, and hearing it malfunction will only piss me off more....
I am wondering, I just had a mouse in the kitchen, he was under my sink I know, and his access was through the dishwasher cabinet. I wonder if he's to blame for the KA issues?

Ida dear, I'll be over soon for my Kenmore Tall tub!

 

[bobbyderegis]

I know a nice lady named Gladys who has a beautiful MAYTAG jet clean in her garage!
(Guess who!)

 

[stevet]

DOn't Panic Just yet!

Needless to say you don't want to get rid of your machine so let's try and figure out what may have happened.And start with the mouse!

Your timer is located underneath the machine so there are loads of tasty wires for him or her to chew on. All it had to do is chew through the any of the wires that might complete a circuit to the motor and you will have a problem until another component is activated or energized and the motor may work.

I have had this happen on my KDS18 and immediately attacked the timer for the same reason as stated by Unimatic. A bad set of contacts in the timer. This unit has the MONOBLOCK timer which was very different from the previous timers that KA used so there may or may not be cam followers in it. But I broke apart my timer based on my uncle's experience with his 18 and wound up ruining the timer.

What I would suggest you do is disconnect the plumbing and electrical supplies on the machine and pull it out of the cabinet. Turn it on its back and inspect all the wires and their connection points and look for any chewed thru wires or any wires that may have come loose or may have burned up. The mouse may have also caused a wire or two to come off its terminal and is preventing the motor from starting right away.

After killing my original timer and replacing it with the new Whirlpool timer they had for it,I still had a dead machine except for the cancel cycle operation working perfectly. Nothing else happened. That was when I took the machine out to the garage and decided to check it all out and found a neutral wire that had managed to arc and burn up. It turned out to be a common connection point for many of the neutrals under the machine and once I fixed that connection, the machine went back to its old self.

The other possibility is that the push button program switch is starting to go bad and may need replacing. That will probably be easy to find as they are still somewhat available out in the field. The timers are just about totally gone. I had one I sold to a guy In California about a month ago for his KDS17 and now he needs a motor for it.

Since your motor is running and not leaking, you should get some more time out of the machine. They are classic units and well loved by nearly everyone who has or had one.

Check the items I mentioned and see if you can find the problem. It requires some work but it may pay off in the long run.
Hope this helps

 

[toploader55]

Yay for stevtak

He helped me sooooooooooooo much with my KDS18 and KD2-P. Obrigado and Bravo

 

[hoover1060]

Thanks

First a big thanks to everyone for their input. After some more investigating, the problem lies in the first fill of all but one cycle, SOAK.
Pushing the "full cycle" button the motor comes on, the timer clicks away, and the fill starts. About 10 seconds into the fill the motor cuts out, and the fill completes. Then silence for a minute or so before the wash kicks in, and the machines proceeds through the cycle normally.
Last night I started a SOAK cycle to see if that was different. It was.
In the soak cycle, the first fill/brief wash are as usual. The machine drains the first pre-wash and as the 2nd fill starts the motor cuts out there. The fill completes, then the soak proceeds as normal.
I have here a brand new KDS17 timer I got last year as NOS. Problem is the part numbers have changed and superseded a few times so I am not certain this is a 17A timer or not. I guess a trip to my local Sundberg office is in order today.
The drama continues!

 

[spankomatic]

We are rooting for you/and the machine....

Save the 17A!
Save the 17A!
Save the 17A!

 

[hoover1060]

Thanks

Turns out I do have a brand new 17-A timer, now to just get it installed....

 

[hoover1060]

EEEEEKKKKK!!!!!

Its NOT the timer...

I just installed the new timer I have, and test ran it through a rinse & hold cycle.

It does the same thing... motor runs, fill starts, motor cuts out, fill completes, silence, then proceeds....

I am at a loss...

 

[coldspot66]

Program switch???

 

[hoover1060]

its in the pre-wash detergent cup

I took the door apart, and found that the little hook thing that lets the soap dispenser open is broken...
Are these little metal things easy to find?

 

[stevet]

YOU FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!!!

Hoover,it makes totally logical sense! Those are the bi metal heaters which allow the detergent dispenser doors to open up. And you have probably hit it on the head!
They work by allowing the motor current to pass thru them to the motor and then the current heats them up and bends them away from the hook on the door.

Replace it and it the machine will work fine! They are only in the circuit for a few minutes after the fill portion and then the timer reroutes the power to the motor circuit. That's why you have no pump action and I bet the door never opens either!It works the same with the second or main wash. It(the timer) sends the current to the motor thru the second bi metal and the door opens while the motor runs and then it switches to another set of contacts in the timer directly to the motor again.
Just for the record, that system was employed in the 17 and 18 and then changed somewhat in the following series where the heater element was used for the current draw to open the doors as well as the rinse aid injector. No rhyme or reason nor consistency there by the way!If your door has one opening for the rinse dispenser, it uses the element unless of course the specific model had no element and then it was back to the motor to do the job.

Totally confused now? I have loads of the bimetals if you cant find them locally. Let me know if you need them