Norgeway--AGREED!!!!!Too many regs--drive up costs and lower standards of living.Get rid of the ones we have now--and things would GET BETTER again-the economy just might pick up!We could build things here again!Thats right- parents in older days-and at school--would teach kids about hazardous things and how to avoid them-or not touch or eat them.
It's a sad day for Vintage Dishwasher collectors!
- Thread starter chachp
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That's really insane. I wonder if the law truly effects dishwashers or habitat is just misunderstanding it?
This is nanny government going too far
Whatever happened to personal responsibility and survival of the fittest? There's no doubt in my mind that the gene pool in this country is out of whack due to legislation that promotes its deterioration.
If in fact HFH is interpreting this latest crock of craziness correctly.
I was at my ReStore this past week and they still had dishwashers and sinks. I can't recall if the sinks had faucets on them, but there were used faucets on the plumbing shelves.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility and survival of the fittest? There's no doubt in my mind that the gene pool in this country is out of whack due to legislation that promotes its deterioration.
If in fact HFH is interpreting this latest crock of craziness correctly.
I was at my ReStore this past week and they still had dishwashers and sinks. I can't recall if the sinks had faucets on them, but there were used faucets on the plumbing shelves.
I spoke to my brother-in-law...
....who manages a H4H in Denver.
I THINK this is what he said because he's pretty smart and uses a lot of big words:
He quoted what was stated above:
The Federal Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act went into effect on January 4, 2014. Currently, all products anticipated for potable water use must be "lead free". The term "lead free" refers to < 0.25% weighted average lead content in relation to wetted surface of pipe, fittings, and fixtures in systems delivering water for human consumption.
And he said devices need to have a CSA label on them indicating they meet these requirements. If the label is there they will sell it. If not they don't. He said usually with faucets the label is on the box so they will generally sell new ones but used ones without the label will not be sold.
So, bottom line they are selling newer dishwashers but the older ones get trashed. Here in Little Rock they are not selling them at all.
....who manages a H4H in Denver.
I THINK this is what he said because he's pretty smart and uses a lot of big words:
He quoted what was stated above:
The Federal Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act went into effect on January 4, 2014. Currently, all products anticipated for potable water use must be "lead free". The term "lead free" refers to < 0.25% weighted average lead content in relation to wetted surface of pipe, fittings, and fixtures in systems delivering water for human consumption.
And he said devices need to have a CSA label on them indicating they meet these requirements. If the label is there they will sell it. If not they don't. He said usually with faucets the label is on the box so they will generally sell new ones but used ones without the label will not be sold.
So, bottom line they are selling newer dishwashers but the older ones get trashed. Here in Little Rock they are not selling them at all.
retromania
Well-known member
Yes...
Sound like they just didn't want to fool with used dishwashers anymore!
Sound like they just didn't want to fool with used dishwashers anymore!
A CSA label??
That's odd - CSA is the Canadian Standards Association and they approve the safety of various appliances and household equipment. Their label is the equivalent of a UL (underwriters labs) one in the US.
Does that mean that Canadian dishwashers will now be in demand in the US?? LOL
That's odd - CSA is the Canadian Standards Association and they approve the safety of various appliances and household equipment. Their label is the equivalent of a UL (underwriters labs) one in the US.
Does that mean that Canadian dishwashers will now be in demand in the US?? LOL
Crazy
Did you know they just reduced again the water usage requirements for washing machines coming down the pike? I haven't checked how low this time but some idiot that has never washed a diaper must have come up with the newer standards!
I'm with NYC on the fluoride, just installed an alumina filter water tastes better already.
Did you know they just reduced again the water usage requirements for washing machines coming down the pike? I haven't checked how low this time but some idiot that has never washed a diaper must have come up with the newer standards!
I'm with NYC on the fluoride, just installed an alumina filter water tastes better already.
i could have had the acronym wrong...
But it sounded like he said CSA. I can ask him again.
But it sounded like he said CSA. I can ask him again.
Summary Of The
Reduction Of Lead In Drinking Water Act
And Frequently Asked Questions
How does EPA interpret the phrase “potable services”?
A. EPA interprets “potable services” to be services or applications that provide water suitable
for human ingestion (e.g. drinking, teeth brushing, food preparation, dishwashing,
maintaining oral hygiene).
6. Q. Are household appliances or fixtures, such as washing machines, dishwashers and water
heaters subject to the lead free requirements?
A. If the appliance or fixture is part of the plumbing system and is not used exclusively for
nonpotable services, it is subject to the lead free requirements. As a result, washing
machines are exempt as a device that is used exclusively for nonpotable services.
Dishwashers and water heaters, on the other hand, are not exempt because they are used for
potable services.
http://water.epa.gov/drink/info/lead/upload/epa815s13001.pdf
Reduction Of Lead In Drinking Water Act
And Frequently Asked Questions
How does EPA interpret the phrase “potable services”?
A. EPA interprets “potable services” to be services or applications that provide water suitable
for human ingestion (e.g. drinking, teeth brushing, food preparation, dishwashing,
maintaining oral hygiene).
6. Q. Are household appliances or fixtures, such as washing machines, dishwashers and water
heaters subject to the lead free requirements?
A. If the appliance or fixture is part of the plumbing system and is not used exclusively for
nonpotable services, it is subject to the lead free requirements. As a result, washing
machines are exempt as a device that is used exclusively for nonpotable services.
Dishwashers and water heaters, on the other hand, are not exempt because they are used for
potable services.
http://water.epa.gov/drink/info/lead/upload/epa815s13001.pdf
???
What the devil do dishwashers have to do with "potable" water.
Sure, they use water from the potable service, but, like John L. said above, the amount (if any) of measurable lead content being placed into the water over the duration of the cycle is so insignificant that it can't be deemed "poisonus."
The problem arises from people drinking water from aging lead-pipes: Ones that are starting to leak or break down, typically in houses with very naturally soft {i.e. rain-water} supplies. Such houses were probably re-plumbed years ago due to numerous "pin-hole leaks."
I will also comment, lead pipes ARE safe, provided they are not exposed to Reverse-Osmosis or Mechanically Softened (i.e. Sodium Chloride fuelled water softener) water supplies. The layer of calcium and magnesium buildup will completely cover the lead, whereas both of the above systems make water that is slightly harsh (particularly R.O. systems) on the piping, and causes the pipes to leak.
People who installed water softeners with lead pipes often begin noticing pin-hole leaks of a period of time, due to the water breaking down Calcium in the pipes and rotting out the lead.
What the devil do dishwashers have to do with "potable" water.
Sure, they use water from the potable service, but, like John L. said above, the amount (if any) of measurable lead content being placed into the water over the duration of the cycle is so insignificant that it can't be deemed "poisonus."
The problem arises from people drinking water from aging lead-pipes: Ones that are starting to leak or break down, typically in houses with very naturally soft {i.e. rain-water} supplies. Such houses were probably re-plumbed years ago due to numerous "pin-hole leaks."
I will also comment, lead pipes ARE safe, provided they are not exposed to Reverse-Osmosis or Mechanically Softened (i.e. Sodium Chloride fuelled water softener) water supplies. The layer of calcium and magnesium buildup will completely cover the lead, whereas both of the above systems make water that is slightly harsh (particularly R.O. systems) on the piping, and causes the pipes to leak.
People who installed water softeners with lead pipes often begin noticing pin-hole leaks of a period of time, due to the water breaking down Calcium in the pipes and rotting out the lead.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
The EPA, like many other government agencies, goes over board in some areas and totally fails in others. Why can't the people that work for these agencies have some common sense. It's like they can't see the forest for the trees. And they wonder why the people don't have any confidence in them. Every time I am subjected to a government entity I have to prepare myself for incompetency and I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen.
Sorry this is drifting a bit from where it started.
Sorry this is drifting a bit from where it started.
Lead In Water
I completely agree with the EPAs regulations regarding doing anything reasonable to reduce peoples exposure to lead.
I also think that it is an extreme overreach to not sell a used DW because of one small brass fitting that is part of almost all built-in DWs produced over the last 50+ years. I do think that it makes good sense not to build DWs with this fitting as there are other satisfactory ways to connect water to the machine that do not have lead in the fittings.
I do not think that ANYONE that knows the extreme hazards of lead on young children would ever suggest that lead water supply pipes are safe under ANY circumstances.
Here in Washington DC it was common to have the main water supply pipe coming into the home be made of lead, and our water is not very soft [ average 6-10 grains of hardness ] yet fairly high levels have been measured in hundreds of homes all over the city.
The city and homeowners are still working to replace all the lead water supply's throughout the city.
John L.
I completely agree with the EPAs regulations regarding doing anything reasonable to reduce peoples exposure to lead.
I also think that it is an extreme overreach to not sell a used DW because of one small brass fitting that is part of almost all built-in DWs produced over the last 50+ years. I do think that it makes good sense not to build DWs with this fitting as there are other satisfactory ways to connect water to the machine that do not have lead in the fittings.
I do not think that ANYONE that knows the extreme hazards of lead on young children would ever suggest that lead water supply pipes are safe under ANY circumstances.
Here in Washington DC it was common to have the main water supply pipe coming into the home be made of lead, and our water is not very soft [ average 6-10 grains of hardness ] yet fairly high levels have been measured in hundreds of homes all over the city.
The city and homeowners are still working to replace all the lead water supply's throughout the city.
John L.
Perhaps I Should Correct Myself:
Lead pipes are not 100% safe (nothing is), but are safer in hard water areas (Where you typically need a softener, not where it might be "desirable," and hardness buildup isn't prolific in kettles (i.e. Ours is hard enough before softening to ruin kettles in less than a year, and before we repaired the softener, we replaced 1 kettle 7 months after moving in that was 10 years old at that point and another about 8 months later).
If you are aware of lead pipes in your house, then by all means REPLACE them, especially if you have to soften your water OR you use "corrosive" rain-water. Don't keep them because you think they are okay.
I agree that the presence of lead in plumbing (except waste, where applicable) is something that needs to be reduced. But applying such silly restrictions on home washers or dishwashers is unreasonable and invalid.
What they should do INSTEAD is mandate that houses not have any lead plumbing in them when being sold onwards (Similar to how ALL houses in Australia MUST have an RCD {GFCI} installed + Smoke-Detectors upon resale, or cars MUST have immobilisers fitted).
Right there you have economic stimulus and jobs creation from pipe replacement you have mandated. Then the government can prattle how it reduced risk AND increased jobs at the same time. Win for ALL.
Lead pipes are not 100% safe (nothing is), but are safer in hard water areas (Where you typically need a softener, not where it might be "desirable," and hardness buildup isn't prolific in kettles (i.e. Ours is hard enough before softening to ruin kettles in less than a year, and before we repaired the softener, we replaced 1 kettle 7 months after moving in that was 10 years old at that point and another about 8 months later).
If you are aware of lead pipes in your house, then by all means REPLACE them, especially if you have to soften your water OR you use "corrosive" rain-water. Don't keep them because you think they are okay.
I agree that the presence of lead in plumbing (except waste, where applicable) is something that needs to be reduced. But applying such silly restrictions on home washers or dishwashers is unreasonable and invalid.
What they should do INSTEAD is mandate that houses not have any lead plumbing in them when being sold onwards (Similar to how ALL houses in Australia MUST have an RCD {GFCI} installed + Smoke-Detectors upon resale, or cars MUST have immobilisers fitted).
Right there you have economic stimulus and jobs creation from pipe replacement you have mandated. Then the government can prattle how it reduced risk AND increased jobs at the same time. Win for ALL.
Really now,Do you REALLY think the brass fittings in an old dishwasher present THAT much of a "lead" danger-think not-these fittings have been used for DECADES without problems.The "Chicken Little Syndrome" strikes again.I remember as a kid---got a thrill out of cleaning out the bullet trap at the local pistol range-indoor range-and shot there with my Dad a lot.Taught me how to shoot both a pistol and rifle there.Enjoyed helping out on the range chores.I am still here and all of my blood counts are normal.Certainly a range backstop would have more lead danger than brass fittings in appliances.And that means perfectly good dishwashers get scrapped rather than renjoyed in another home-and think of it some folks not only collect them as we do on appliances-but some folks can't AFFORD a new dishwassher.Esp with the sour economy as we have now.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
A blood test will reveal hundreds of toxic chemicals in most peoples blood. I have a feeling that someone or more likely some corporation is grinding an axe to prevent used dishwashers from being sold so that more trash dishwashers will have to be purchased. It could be a shady back room deal between lobbyists and government. There's usually a story behind the story that most of us never hear.
The government loves to set acceptable levels, but those levels and the levels the body will accept are usually two different things.
The government loves to set acceptable levels, but those levels and the levels the body will accept are usually two different things.
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