Nationwide gas stove ban?

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From CNN article linked below

Though proper ventilation with a fan or hood that leads outside can minimize health risks, according to CNN reporting, many homes don’t have adequate ventilation.

This should sound alarm bells for the 38% of American households that rely on gas for their cooking.

It should also sound the alarm for chefs in commercial kitchens that run on gas.

Chef Chris Galarza used to be one of them. The 33-year-old New Jersey native spent the formative years of his career cooking over a gas burner. The heat from the flames that licked the sides of his pans, combined with the constant stream of gas pollutants he was breathing in during his long shifts, often made the chef and his colleagues physically ill.

“In between rushes, we would go to the bathroom to throw up,” he recalls. “We were experiencing nausea, vomiting, headaches, lightheadedness,” symptoms which have been tied to indoor air pollution and extreme heat.

It wasn’t until Galarza happened to take a job in an all-electric kitchen and his symptoms disappeared that he started connecting the dots between his health and the gas stoves he had been accustomed to using.

“I realized, ‘Wow, I’ve been poisoning myself as a chef in the pursuit of my craft and my career.’ I began to ask myself, ‘Why am I doing this?’” It was then that Galarza decided he would center his career around helping commercial kitchens become electric.

In 2019, Galarza founded Forward Dining Solutions, a culinary consultancy dedicated to helping companies create fully-electric kitchens. As cities from coast to coast – including Berkley, San Francisco, New York City – have slowly started banning natural gas stoves in new buildings, Galarza has been there to not only help ease the transition to electric, but to educate chefs on why it is the way of the future.

And to the gas stove holdouts who remain skeptical that electric cooking can produce gourmet food, Galarza is here to allay your concerns.

“It’s not true at all that gas stoves cook better,” he says. “In fact, you can cook about 38.6 pounds of food per hour with your gas range, and it’s going to take time and elbow grease to clean and degrease it afterward. With induction, you can cook 70.9 pounds of food per hour – nearly double the amount of food – and your clean up is going to be a lot easier.”

Induction stoves use electricity to create a magnetic field and generate heat right in the cookware instead of on the surface of the stovetop. “Because the stove itself doesn’t get as hot, if you spill something on your induction range, it won’t burn onto the surface or require scrubbing to remove,” explains Galarza.

For their part, some restaurants are also committing to electric appliances. Brooklyn pizzeria Oma Grassa has been lauded for the crispy texture of its pizza crust, which is made possible by an electric oven, the top and bottom of which can be headed to different temperatures.

There are, of course, some culinary feats that require an open flame – achieving a light, stovetop char on a tortilla without dirtying a pan, for instance. But, as one Twitter user pointed out: “You can like something without having to defend every single aspect of it. Almost all good things have drawbacks.”
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Induction is very popular in European commercial kitchens. Fagor is a large producer of induction ranges.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/opinions/gas-stove-debate-galarza-goldynia-ctrp/index.html
 
Thanks Tom for this very well written post and the informative link from CNN. It points out what I’ve been saying, poor ventilation is the downfall and danger of gas stoves. It also reiterates that a skilled cook or chef can cook well on any type of stove, but that cooking with an electric or induction stove is more efficient.

Sadly, I seriously doubt this article will change the minds of any of the people that are steadfast fans of gas stoves, facts be damned.

Eddie
 
I sorted through JohnB300m's video until I got to the assertion "aluminum cookware is generally terrible anyway". I strongly disagree!

 

For many years my main cookware was pure aluminum. Aluminum heats rapidly and evenly. It may be true that uncoated aluminum cookware may stain quicker than some other types, but that is easily addressed by adding some oil or grease to the pan before heating. And aluminum cookware with non-stick coating resolves this issue considerably.

 

Folks, let's not rely on LIES to try to make a point here.

 
 
There may also be the consideration that distribution of electrical energy is a lot more energy intensive than distribution of natural gas energy. Why? Well, for starters, electrical current causes heating, and that heating has to be dealt with in some way. Typical ways for power distribution is to jack up the voltage to very high levels on the power lines, and then transform it down to 220 (240) or 110 (120) at the residential areas. This means extra equipment in the distribution system, as well as power loss at the transformer level (notice they all have fins... ever wonder why?).

 

I reiterate my position on this: the best way to handle the putative health hazards from gas stoves is to eliminate standing pilot lights from gas appliances, and to provide gas stoves/ranges/cooktops with efficient range hoods that exhaust to the outdoors. Nearly all the gas cooktops I've seen for sale in at least the past 20 years have spark igniters (no standing pilot lights). This is not only safer from a health perspective, but also safer in terms of losing the flame on a pilot light and then dealing with the escaped pilot light gas.

 

 

 
 
Reply #118

I had zero intention of watching this video in its entirety but in the end I did watch it all the way through.  He made some very interesting points.  Good point made around the 5-minute mark regarding the media in general.  

 

Just after the 31-minute mark, he said that gas stoves never shut off completely and there is always a small amount of uncombusted natural gas leaking out into your kitchen.  Well I have never heard this before.  I don't know to what extent that is true, if at all.

 

Thanks for posting it!

Mark
 
Gas, stoves

Reply number 118, the one point he did make. Was it cooking on electric or gas does create fumes it should be vented out of the house. This is a good point.

Gas stoves do not emit gas all the time that’s another one of those mistakes in the video.

As I said before, don’t look to see a fan of gas stoves but you’re going to see less and less of them in the future and they’re going to be redesigned and they’ll be ventilation requirements for new installations and probably for old homes where people do extensive remodeling.

One thing to keep in mind just venting, gas stoves, outside, still creates a lot of pollution, gas ranges are the dirtiest gas burning appliances in a household they produce far more pollution for the amount of gas burned, then water, heaters, dryers, furnaces, etc. it’s a very inefficient process that’s why the emphasis is mainly on getting rid of the gas stoves.

The good news is even with all these electric cars and converting to more and more electric heating etc. in 2023. The United States is going to use less electricity than it did last year and less than a year before.

Other good news is we are now producing about 16% of our energy with renewables that will go up again this year

Even with all these electric cars and things there’s not gonna be any shortage of electricity.

John
 
Electric Coil vs Induction

I have wondered if Induction is more efficient than electric coil. This article points out that they are almost equal. Does not mention smooth top electric. Also we need to consider the size of the induction disc, usually not easy to find out. This size should be near the pan size and if much smaller will not heat the pan evenly. Induction disc size is generally smaller in cheaper induction units.

Electric coil units are difficult to clean. And the new ones have the automatic limiter which may make them less useful. But they pass the test of overall efficiency and cost.

https://www.centurylife.org/is-indu...-energy-efficiency-comparison-between-stoves/
 
While most electric coils are more efficient than gas, induction is far more efficient since the heat is created in the pan, not outside of it and then conducted into it. Also, perfectly flat bases of pans and perfectly flat surface units are rare so getting the heat from the surface unit into the pan can present more challenges.
 
On the leaky stove front, I think that's only when there's a serious defect in the range. I remember, when I was in my early teens, watching a PG&E chap come by to help diagnose a malfunctioning range in our rental flat. Turned out someone in the place had maladjusted a pilot light screw and it was either completely off or spewing flame. I dimly recall something about a missing washer. Anyway, it got fixed and worked as well as a range with standing pilot lights is supposed to work.

 

At some point new ranges switched over to electric spark igniters. The downside is that one needs an electrical hookup for them to work. However, at least with my gas cooktop (circa 2000), a match or lighter (preferably a fireplace lighter) will do the trick as well.
 
Pilotless ignition on major appliances

California band pilot lights on gas, stoves and clothes dryers in 1976, this is why Maytag had to switch to electric ignition. It wasn’t worth building dryers just for California and then the rest of the country.

Maytag was the last hold out building dryers with electric ignition.

Many people tried for years to get pilot lights banned on all gas stoves it wasn’t until the Obama administration that this was finally accomplished.

For many years the ruling was that if the gas stove had a 120 V source of power if it had so much as a lightbulb in it, it had to have electric ignition, that’s why there were so many basic gas ranges that didn’t have a clock or a bulb in the oven that still has standing pilots until just a decade ago .

Yes, small pilot flames do make a lot of pollution. They tend not to burn very inefficiently. They also waste an enormous amount of gas the average gas stove with just three little pilots on it burns nearly 1/3 of the total fuel just to keep those pilots running.

All surface burners on gas stoves can be lit with a match and used without electricity, with the exception of Thermidor’s auto simmer burners, they require electricity to operate, that’s why they only put two of them on any given range or cooktop the other burners can be lit with a match if the power is out.

John
 
This anti-natural gas propaganda campaign is still full of CRAP!!!!

I’m going to be egotistical along with the many others who cook with these noxious pollutants:

When you see a bunch of dead bodies laying around the kitchen and maybe outside around OUR house, then you can take away gas stoves from everybody else’s—though so far no one had proven it enough to come over and confiscate mine just yet…

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll turn on the gas, and go to sleep with the windows closed (& let’s see if I’ll ever wake up)…

— Dave[this post was last edited: 1/23/2023-04:41]



daveamkrayoguy-2023012301404901869_1.jpg
 
Jacques Pépin

I was just watching Jacques Pépin make some lamb stew over his gas cooktop.
He's 87 and looks pretty good but someone should explain to him the health dangers of cooking with gas before it's TOO LATE !!!!!!
 
First it was the dangers of microwave ovens, now they're on the gas stove kick. Whats next? They coming after our Hobart mixers and stick blenders because the arcing of the brushes just made a hole over The Fiji's and they got snow there for the first time ever? Get a life. Its time people brought attention to the pollution going on around the other side of the world thats largely being ignored and unchecked and doing more permanent harm than all the west combined.
 
It's kind of perfect.

It's kind of perfect that it's "the children",,, by the time it's proven wrong or at best inconclusive the deed will be done,, gas stoves will be gone..
Probably all gas appliances.
You can't get to the green utopia with gas appliances lingering around.
It's actually kind of a miracle the planet is still at all here since we've had 10 years to save it since 1989..
 
I think long before anyone should focus efforts on the possible harm gas stoves are causing us they should research how we're being poisoned from all the imported food from countries like China etc that prob have more toxins in them we ingest than any gas stove we've been cooking on all our lives. Some of the foods I've seen at Asian markets or places like Ocean State Job Lot or dollar stores boggles my mind how it sneaked in here. Our FDA is failing us miserably for decades!
 
Looks like gas stoves may just do themselves in

I’ve got customers every day that are calling, wanting to get rid of their gas stoves now, it’s amazing induction came out in 1969 and it is never sold, but I guess gas stoves are gonna be what really makes it sell finally.

I’m working with four people right now that are changing out their stoves and I talked to the local appliance distributor and they said they’re getting tons of inquiries getting rid of the gas stoves now.

I think once people realize that there really was a danger with these that they’re going to make the appropriate moves on their own.

It’s going to be increasingly difficult to even sell a home with a gas stove in it to many families.

It makes no sense to compare that hazard from a gas stove to other hazards in the world, that type of thinking doesn’t help anything.

John
 
Because I have a hood over my gas range with a powerful exhaust fan vented to outside I'm not worried, but with this in the news I have been more diligent about using the fan.

 

I'm sure there are many apartment buildings out there with gas ranges and no exhaust fan.
 
Ach, mien Gott in Himmel! The consternation over potential banning of gas stoves is really mind boggling. If you learn that something has the potential to be hazardous to the health of others and yourself find a reasonable way to mitigate the hazard.

The hysteria around this topic reminds me of how some people are so reckless in their cars. I’ve driven up Interstate Hwy 80 to Sacramento on a Saturday in heavy traffic and witnessed several mini vans loaded with little kids, hurtling up the highway at 85-90 MPH, weaving in and out of traffic. Now these people must be aware that they are carrying precious cargo, their children, and must be aware that driving this fast is dangerous, yet they do it anyway! WTH!

Refusing to recognize the potential hazards of gas stoves just because, “well I like them and I won’t give them up” is the same thing as driving like a maniac with a mini van full of your kids. You know its dangerous, but you continue to do it anyway.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 1/24/2023-14:39]
 
Concerning the driving of motor vehicles, there is a reason why there are speed limits, obeying them mitigates the hazard…

As for gas ranges, what sort of mitigation is needed? We’re endlessly beating a dead horse banning their entire existence…

Need adequate ventilation for them? Get and/or use what devices or methods while using provide the needed ventilation?

Invincible to the poisonous carbon monoxide and deadly fumes? Keep on cooking with them—this is going to be a very endlessly divided issue…

Too many other acts of product and conduct the government has to step in and regulate versus the governed unanimously punished for the wrongdoing happening to only some…

— Dave
 
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