Old car radio

[kenwashesmonday]

AMC used vacuum wipers into the early 1970s on the Gremlin and Hornet. Ford Broncos also had them as standard equipment until about the same time.

I've had at least 8 Ramblers over the years, and I can tell you that when all is right, the wipers don't slow down much at all when you stomp on the gas. They're also quiet, and don't cause radio interference. They also don't get damaged if someone shuts the car off before a winter freeze without first parking the wipers.

Looks like Steve Johnson has a download of the Mopar 807 radio schematic for $7.50 (see link below) It is very important to replace the buffer capacitor on the vibrator with the exact value and a high voltage rating.

http://autoradioschematics.com/

 

[rp2813]

Rich, the "black beauty" capacitor in your picture above is notorious for causing problems.  I've only seen a grand total of exactly one person ever dispute this claim, and I'm pretty sure it was someone on this web site.  If you do nothing else, make sure you at least replace that one.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

The black plastic cap with the stripes?  If if makes a clunk when it hits the trash can, it's bad.

 

[rp2813]

Yes, that black one.

Has anyone ever tossed a good one into the trash to find out how it sounds?   I don't know that I'd be able to tell the difference. 

 

[sudsmaster]

Ralph,

That photo is from the text link I posted. It's not of the components from my '50 Plymouth radio.

And the "Black Beauty" does not look familiar anyway. I do recall replacing the vibrator that hiked 6 volt positive ground to whatever higher frequency voltage the radio itself needed. That was relatively easy and worked just fine. In any case, I replaced ALL the capacitors so if there was a defective one in there, it's long gone.

No, the problem I encountered was with the square or rectangular caps, the ones with three dots or six dots. I simply couldn't find any explanation of how to read the dots; the electronics store was no help, so I took a best guess. The radio works but the volume isn't what I think it should be, and the reception could be better, too. So my suspicion is that the performance has been affected by capacitors with the wrong ... capacitance. Once I know what the values should be, it would be a relatively easy process to replace what I put in there in the mid-90's with the correct values.

 

[stan]

Will be

Pulling the radio sometime this weekend (pics for Rich) and will see what I'm able to do with the wipers.

 

[stan]

Rich

Sent you pics of radio, not sure if they show what you need. Let me know if you get them or need better ones. Posting here as well.. More eyes on may help.
Got the wipers working without taking the motor apart. With better light I found that I had previously mounted incorrectly.
Watch when it rains.. I'll bet the SOBs won't work LOL

 

[stan]

Now

I'm having trouble with the rear turn signals bulbs , and front running lights!
Service manual dose not indicate bulb numbers. I think 1157 for running lights? (Double filament) and tail lights?
Can't find out turn signal bulb numbers (ones there have the numbers faded or rubbed off)
Think they are listed in owners manual, but can't find my copy.
What next

 

[stan]

Found it

Also some specs for radio

 

[norgeway]

I know one thing!

Those older radios will pick up stations at night you can only dream of getting on a new radio.

 

[rp2813]

Stan, it doesn't look like we've established whether you're working with a 6 or 12 volt system.  From what I can make out on the SAMS radio specs you posted, it appears to be rated at 6 volts.

 

If that's the case, then 1157 isn't the bulb you want for rear stop/tail lamps because that's a 12 volt bulb.  I just replaced the after-market tail light assemblies on my GMC with 6 volt originals that take two separate bulbs for stop and tail.  I can probably dig up one of the old 6 volt dual filament bulbs and give you the number off of it.  I also have aftermarket turn signals up front, and those are single filament bulb #1129 which is probably what you need for yours, unless they are double duty parking/signal lamps, in which case they'd be the same as the dual filament ones I removed.

 

Let me know what type you need and I'll get back to you with numbers.  I basically have bulbs for all possibilities here, be it dual filament front & rear or single filament.

 

[norgeway]

a 50

Would be 6 volt positive ground, unless it has been updated.

 

[stan]

Hans

You are correct 6 volt positive ground. Not converted to 12.
Ralph.. Found my owners manual..
1158 is the stop/tail light duel filament. 63 is for turn signals for front and back. All can be had at the local auto store. Think part of my problem with these lights is that the sockets are very worn, and are loosing their ground connection. And someone has dicked with them in the past.
Only way I can figure a way for these to work properly is to get new sockets, new bulbs, and mount them where the manufacture intended them to be.

And just like I thought.. Wipers stopped working..don't notice a vacuum leak in the vacuum hose? Kits mounted correctly, linkage looks good...Guess I have to crack the vacuum motor, and see what's up.
Only one thing good from all this...my partner likes seeing me laying on my back in and under the car.. Having a lurker doesn't help me but..guess he gets charge out of it?

 

[rp2813]

Glad you found the numbers, Stan.  63 sounds like what the GMC uses, but I'm not familiar with 1158.  I have issues with some of the sockets on my GMC, but usually giving them a tweak, like extending the spring to provide more pressure and/or using something like a flat blade screwdriver to alter the surface of the contact point(s) of the bulb helps.

 

Best of luck with the wipers.  I guess you'll be needing them starting today.  I pulled the motor from its mount on the GMC to test it with linkage detached and it ran smooth as silk and at a good clip while sitting there in my hand.  That leads me to believe it's the linkage that's bogging it down.  You might try a similar test to isolate the problem.

 

[stan]

Thanks Ralph

I'll try that (again) with wiper motor. I've had them running, only to have them not the next day.
Back to the lights..the manual dose not give a bulb number for turn signal lights. Says bulb 63 for parking lights. Think it's because turn signals where optional then. Says bulb 88 for dome light. I'm wondering if the same socket can be used for either? If so I could use bulb 88 for Signals (brighter)
Fur sure the suckers need to be mounted better.

 

[rp2813]

EDITED with new info

Stan, yes, now that you've mentioned it, 63 provides typical tail/parking light brightness which is only 3 CP.  Stop and signal lamps are usually 21 CP.   If your turn signal lamps are single filament, 1129 (21 CP) should work.  If they function as both parking and turn signal, then 1158 should work.  BUT -- read on.

 

I checked the bulbs in the after-market tail lamp assemblies I pulled off the Jimmy.  They're dual filament, but instead of 1158, they're 1154.  I investigated, and 1158 has what's called "in line" posts on the side of the bulb base (to twist and lock into the socket) and 1154 has offset posts (one higher/lower than the other).  Otherwise, I presume CP is the same for filaments on both.  So, if the slots in your sockets are in line, use 1158, otherwise go with 1154.  I'll have to check one of the 1129s I have sitting around here and see if its posts are in-line or offset. 

 

Edit:

 

OK, the 1129 has in line posts.  I couldn't find anything about a single filament bulb with equivalent CP and offset posts, but such a bulb might exist, unless the offset treatment is only found on dual filament types.  I have a feeling that your Plymouth has a dual purpose parking/signal assembly and would take either the 1158 or 1154, but if parking and signal lenses are separate, then 1129 (or its offset counterpart) and 63 should work.

 

 

[this post was last edited: 11/3/2017-18:09]

 

[stan]

Thanks Ralph

Was thinking that I might take out the house and repaint whir or metallic silver better brightness
Thoughts?

 

[rp2813]

I did that with the added turn signals on the front and rear of the GMC.  I painted the insides silver.  It helped a little, but the lenses themselves are the rounded cone shaped running lights intended for night use so they still don't light up well when it's sunny.

 

I've been looking for old school add-on turn signal assemblies with flat lenses, but haven't found any yet that will work without a lot of modification.

 

And P.S.

 

I'm down with your partner.  What's not sexy about a man on his back while working under a car?

 

[diesirae7]

Vacuum antenna

When you mentioned radio and vacuum, made me think of my 1954 Cadillac Fleetwood radio. The antenna is vacuum powered, a vacuum switch is built into the volume knob, push in to raise the antenna and pull out to lower it. Amazing what they did with vacuum power in those days.

 

[sudsmaster]

Stan,

Thanks for posting those photos and emailing me same.

As I discussed, as I recall the components of interest are soldered on the opposite side of the circuit board from the tubes. So the radio would have to be further disassembled to reveal the "goodies".

However it's also been about 23 years since I worked on my '50 radio, and while I seem to recall the capacitors and resistor were tucked away underneath, I can't be 100% sure of that until either you or I pull our radios and do some wrenching.

I also have a schematic, but when I got mine some years after the radio was updated and put back in the dash. And I'm not positive the schematic I have is for the right radio.

I might be able to pull my radio this weekend to check out the particulars.

 

[rp2813]

I think our '57 Lincoln had a vacuum operated antenna. 

 

It was a beautiful car, but also the world's biggest lemon.  Every major component imaginable failed at least once.  My dad bought that car a couple of times over.  If the antenna ever worked, it didn't do so for long.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

At the cab company where I worked we had a fleet of aging Checker cabs. When the light bulb sockets got tired and no longer contacted the tips of the bulbs well, they would add a little blob of solder to the contacts on the base of the bulbs.

 

[stan]

Ralph

If it helped "a little" I'll take that.
Ken. Thanks for the tip.
Rich. Here's some pics of the radio out.. looks like the front cover can be removed to begin access to where your trying to get.
5.5mm socket seems to fit the best, your application may be different? If you go that far, post some pics!
I also decided to service the defroster motor (was laying there anyway) but noticed how heavy it was.. Decided to weigh it and this little guy weighs 2 and 1/2 lbs
It's back in, and running good.

 

[sudsmaster]

Stan,

I wound up fighting a sore throat/cold most of the weekend, lots of sleeping, and didn't get around to pulling the car radio.

Nothing on a '50 Plymouth would be metric, however, 5.5 mm works out to about .217 inches, which in turn would be close to 7/32 (.218). Generally fasteners are made slightly smaller than nominal, and sockets and wrenches are made slight larger than nominal. Your socket set may not have the 7/32 size, but it's a good idea to have a 1/4" set that covers that range as well.

My defroster motor stopped working last winter (when I actually needed it). Turned out the ground wire needed to be relocated, and more firmly attached, after which it resumed normal operation. Yes, like most components on that car, it's heavy, but that it's lasted 57 years should tell you something. Chrysler tended to put the same accessory components (other than obvious differences like engines etc) on their smallest cars (Plymouth) as on their biggest cars (Chrysler), which means the smaller Plymouths got quite a reputation for reliability, since their accessories were somewhat overbuilt. Unlike later years when small often meant cheaper, lighter, and flimsier all round.

 

[stan]

You could try

the 7/32..it's what I reached for first, but oddly the 5.5 mm was better for me.
Still trying to get the old girl ready for dark cold and rain. Heater, defroster, and of course the lights

Take care of the sore throat

 

[stan]

Rich

BTW where did u move ur ground wire?
Mine is attached the the screw that holds the heater control to the dash.
Do you happen to know where the manufacture intended for it to go?

 

[stan]

Ralph

got lights working for the time being..
Will tweek later..But wanted to let you know that bulb 81 can be used in place of the 63 with more CP.
Found this by returning the 67s they gave by mistake, for the 63s. The girl at the part store gave me a 81 and said it was 6 volts with higher CP than the 63. Now that I've treid..I may exchange them and switch out 63s for the 81s.
If I do, I want to see if there is a 6 volt dual filament that has a higher CP than the 1158s that serve as tail and brake lights.

 

[sudsmaster]

Stan,

Sorry, the cold medicine seemed to have addled my brain a bit.

The blower that stopped working for me a while ago was the blower motor for the whole heater. It's attached up front near the radiator. Can't remember where I moved it, there were several points to choose from. I think it just got a little loose, and when I rebuilt the engine I repainted everything, and the ground wire was attacked to one of the bolts on the radiator frame - as I recall. I repositioned that wire and made sure it had good contact with bare metal. Did the trick. But that was after I took everything apart, naturally. LOL.

I worked yesterday but overnight the sore throat returned with a vengeance so I stayed home today. Tomorrow is probably 50/50.

I don't recall ever fooling with the defroster blower. Can't even picture it at the moment.

On the 7/32 bolt... I have noticed that the hex heads on fasterners on this car seem to be closer to nominal dimensions than modern fasteners. In other words, sockets and wrenches fit tighter on them than they would on a newer fastener. Which is generally a good thing, as long as one can get the tool on it and off it without having to bang it on.

I'll probably discover what's the best wrench/socket for that fastener when I pull my radio. You might also get a set of calipers and measure across the flats on the hex.

 

[stan]

Defroster motor

Mounts under the dash. Squirrel cage is held on with an Allen screw. Would imagine heater blower is similer, maybe biger These motors don't move a lot of air (like a new car) but as long as the ductwork is as airtight as possible they get the job done. (Just takes longer)
@rich..You mentioned vacuum gas pump..up thread in relation to the wipers. Can you explain further. Don't think I have such?

 

[rp2813]

Hey Stan, thanks for the info on the #81 bulbs.  I'll look into getting a couple for the tail lights on the Jimmy.   It sounds like parts stores carry them from the experience you described.

 

I looked up a chart that shows the difference between a 63 and 81:

63:  7.0 volt, .63 amp, 3 CP, average life 1,000 hours

81:  6.5 volt, 1.02 amp, 6 CP, average life 500 hours.

 

I wonder if the 81 would be compatible with the existing wiring.  I also notice that with 12 volt bulbs, they are often rated for 14 volts, which is IIRC what's usually provided while the engine is running and generator is at maximum operation.  I don't know if a 6 volt system kicks up similarly while the engine and generator are running and whether that might blow out a #81.   I guess it couldn't hurt to try.  Seems to me that when all lights are on, it would be unlikely for more than 6 volts to be powering the bulbs.

 

I don't really need anything brighter for the front parking lamps.  They're almost never used, and the added-on turn signal lamps take the larger base single filament #1129, which seems bright enough.

[this post was last edited: 11/8/2017-14:00]