Spider Corrosion, And Foul Odors, In Front Load Washers

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Temperature In Bosch Washers

To combo52
I omitted this in the post above.
In the manuals for the two named machines the maximum temperature setting available is 'Power Temp. Boost' at 160F.
Neither manual makes any mention of a sanitizing cycle or anything similar.
 
Stinky washer!!

The only thing that has caused my FL to stink was FOCA detergent. Don't know why, but I had to do a tub clean cycle after I rewashed the clothes with Tide. I still cannot figure out that smell. I run at least 13 loads a week in my LG, but I always leave the door wide open and take out the dispenser drawer when I'm not using it for a few days. I am counting on this washer lasting for five years, after that it will be a bonus.
 
FOCA Laundry Aid

To Amyswasher
Thank you for your input. I am not familiar with the FOCA detergent but reading other posts it seems as though it is ‘high sudsing’ and likely to contain phosphates. When did this incident take place?
Similarly I am not familiar with the design of the LG’s spider so I do not know if it has recesses up near the hub, should it have, then it is possible that considerable quantities of ‘suds’ collected in that area and then went foul. How long after using the FOCA did you notice the smell?
I could not find a MSDS for FOCA on the web so have no idea what its ingredients are or what its pH is.
Thank you once again and I look forward to your response.
Regards
 
BOSCH WASHERS AND LCB

I went by my local Lowes store yesterday and checked out the new Bosch washers. Both the full sized 4500 and 3300 models have dispensers for LCB only. The 24" compact model was still the old style and did not have the dispenser. Bosch seems to be coming around to what every else already knows that LCB will actually extend the life of FL washers. Machines that have a high temp wash [ over 150F] should not have LCB in the heated wash water that will give off unpleasant fumes and may damage electrical control parts of the machine. It has nothing to do with the spider corroding. Unless some new relevant information is found on this issue I am signing off on this topic.
 
Bosch Washers and LCB

It is interesting to note that combo52 has dropped the temperature for the production of hazardous fumes from 200F to over 150F. A pity he did not enlighten us as to why!
I have been unable to find any manuals, or indeed any relevant details for the two machines combo52 has named, even on the Bosch home page, so I am unable to comment on the apparent ‘permission’ of Bosch to use LCB in their ‘latest’ machines. Can anyone else help out there?
I did note that from the Bosch homepage, that what appear to be some of the latest models, have an ‘extra sanitary wash cycle’ which is claimed to take the water to 170F. However the limited technical specifications for the same models state that there is no tub sanitizer.
 
FOCA

It was right after I took the clothes out of the washer. Where I live lots of people use FOCA (with my accent it sound like I'm saying something else), because of hard water. It didn't make very many suds in the FL. It couldn't be very good for the washer, but I did a tub clean with 2 Finish tabs and all was good. It works well in TL, but will never go in my FL again. There are other Mexican Detergents at the store, but you have to lay them out in the sun to dry, no tumble dryer whatsoever.
 
I forgot!

If your water is not very hard, it's a pain to use FOCA. It takes several rinses in a TL. Had a family member who went to the store one day and thought FOCA is cheap. She was ticked when she couldn't get suds out of the clothes after two rinses. It wasn't such a deal after that.
 
Bosch Washers And LCB

To foraloysius
Thank you I missed that one. I have now downloaded the manual for the Vison 800 Series.
This manual contains the following: -
On page 2
Under the heading ‘3-Part Detergent Jet Dispenser’ the statement ‘A 3-part dispenser automatically distributes detergent, bleach and softener at exactly the right times.’
Under the heading ‘XxtraSanitary Cycle’ the statement ‘With this innovative cycle, a thermostat-controlled intelligent system heats up the water to 170F. The clothes are thoroughly cleaned and sanitized while killing 99.99% of the most common household bacteria.’
Under the heading ‘Internal Water Heater’ the statement ‘An internal heating element heats the water to up to 180F while a digital temperature sensor continually monitors the water temperature. Bosch Vision washers deliver the most efficient and accurate water heating method for each selected fabric type.’
On page 21
Under the heading ‘[3] Bleach Compartment’ there are the instructions for filling the compartment. A caution against overfilling. An instruction not to pour the bleach directly onto the laundry. A note that the bleach will be automatically dispensed at the correct time. A note that concentrated or thick bleach and powder bleach must be dilute prior to being poured into the dispenser. A note that spilled bleach may discolor the washer surfaces.
Under the heading ‘Decolorizing’ a ‘Notice’ stating ‘Dyes may contain sulphur or chlorine. These substances may cause part of the washing machine to corrode. Do not dye items of laundry in the washing machine.’
On page 28
Under the heading ‘Cleaning tips’ is the recommendation that 0.5 cup of household bleach be run through the machine once every three months, with no laundry in place on the ‘Regular/Cotton Hot cycle’
There is nothing about a drum sanitizing cycle or anything similar.

From this it could reasonably be deduced that Bosch either no longer have components in this washer that give off ‘hazardous fumes’ when chlorine bleach comes in contact with them or that the fumes were not hazardous to humans in the first place only to components in the machine which are no longer fitted. The argument about high temperature causing the fumes to be given off would appear to be irrelevant. The possible temperatures in this machine are, if anything, capable of reaching even higher levels than those in the previously discussed two machines.

The only thing left is to try and get Bosch to tell us what is different now, and hopefully what the spider is now made of! Anyone any ideas?
 
Don't know about Bosch

But my May-Pool FL'r doesn't dispense bleach in the wash where the HOT water is, it dispenses in the first rinse which is tap cold. Thus it doesn't interfear with enzyme detergents and is not exposed to the HOT water and heater where fumes would be more prevelant.

I am being careful with bleach in my new machine, because I gave more for it than I did my first car and I want it to last. I also bought an extended warranty.
 
Corrosion & Bleach

ToIheartmaytag
Thank you for the input it is duly noted.
Bleach is corrosive at lower (cold tap) temperatures so once introduced into the machine the potential for corrosion of aluminium components exists, until such time as all traces of it, or any other additive which has the capability to corrode aluminium for that matter, have been removed. I believe owners of these machines should be so advised.
Good luck with your machine and hopefully you will not be one of the unfortunate minority who suffer problems.
Thank you again
 
Iheartmaytag

the real chances of bleach doing damage is very low. Whe used as directed. If misused then that is a totally different story. As said before in the plant I use bleach that is 10% 15 % and 20@ and have NEVER EVER had a machine fail due to that. I have had one home machine that lasted more than 5 years under the extreme conditions we put it thu and is still going strong in a employees home. Also have 1 150 that is almost 20 years old now and it to has not a single problem due to bleach.. We also bleach @ 150 and fumes have NEVER been a problem either. Most of the time on the home machines the dry bleach 20% (almost 4x as strong as home bleach) is added right with the detergent. and NEVER a problem ever! So dont be too concerned about it, The chances of a electric shock and turning you in to Lady Godiva are greater.
 
Decomposition of Sodium Hypochlorite (Bleach)

To sudsman and Iheartmaytag.
On thinking about your posts I started to wonder, ‘Over what temperature range is bleach effective?’
The information I have so far been able to glean is that it starts to slowly decompose when heated above 104F (40C) and the rate of this decomposition rises with increasing temperature and increasing concentration. Its boiling point is stated in several MSDS’s as 110C (we are not going to get that in normal ‘washing machines’).
According to the MSDS’s that I perused the pH value on one was stated to be ‘neutral’ (I take this to be 7.0, the neutral point on the pH scale) with a 1% solution, other MSDS’s gave varying values up to 14.0 (totally alkaline) with varying concentrations up to a 15% solution (pH 14.0).
Anyone know where there is more information on the decomposition of sodium chloride at temperatures above 104F?
 
Home machines

We have had just about every brand there is at one time or another. At this time we have a Frigidaire Gallery. The last one was a Gallery also, And it pulled more than 5 very hard years. And is still working in a employees home. We had at the same time 2 LG also. over the years just about every brand made however. Keep in mind I do not expect them to last over a year but all have made that and more. they pull on avg 10 loads a day 7 days a week for a avg of 300 loads per mo. over 3600 loads a year. Now that is pushing a washer. Oh yes there are minor things. Drain pumps clog up due to mop strings its expected and water valves sometimes fail also expected but I have a VERY good maintaince man that takes care of them and I have had very little down time with any of the home machines except the damn LGs they were awful but did make 2 full years also. [this post was last edited: 7/23/2010-10:16]
 
LCB INFL WASHERS

More evidence that LCB actually extends the life of the washers, I don't know where these stupid rummers about properly using LCB in washers is going to cause great harm to the machine. P S try to get your money back on that extended warranty unless you have money to burn they aren't worth it. The average machine that starts out with an extended warranty is thrown away years earlier than machines that don't have these rip off plans.
 
I bought the extended warranty

More for the electronics than the mechanics.

I have a Maytag Dishwasher that the control board was replaced twice (2x) in 18 months.
I was a scared about having to replace a $400 control board on the washer so I opted for the EW.
 
100% agree

the extended warranty are not worth the money most of the time. if you can get it back do so. If your going to have problems it will happen during the regular warranty. More attenention should be paid to thoses who really know like the service people than ones with questionable reasons, Most all agree LCB when used as directed WILL NOT HARM A WASHER!
 
Spider Corrosion

To sudsman
Should it not be LCB then what is causing the corrosion of the aluminium spiders? Please do not forget that I believe that any laundry aid with the potential to reach a pH above about 8.0 could cause corrosion of the spiders. Please let me have your thoughts and ideas, and of course any reference to a reliable source which substantiates those ideas.
Thank you.
 
I believe that any laundry aid with the potential to reach a

Just beacuse you believe it does not make it true. I find it quite strange that there are over 1300 memebers on this site and not a single one has had the same problem.If anyone would have the problem I would have it first. And I have not had any such problems ever. Perhaps the real cause is yourself, How is anyone to know you did not use excess amounts of bleach or other products to cause it to happen.. NO mfg is going to make a laundry product that when used as directed will harm a washer. I have seen NO real proof that the spider was in that bad of shape anyway. More like normal use. Things do show wear as they are used. So you can keep sounding the siren and I will keep giving the all clear![this post was last edited: 7/23/2010-16:14]
 

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